4 ms·

> Allegedly many of the migrants are economic refugees in addition to or instead of political ones. Whether one can be defined as "economic refugee" is questio

by aikah 11y ago

> Allegedly many of the migrants are economic refugees in addition to or instead of political ones. Whether one can be defined as "economic refugee" is questionable. One is not going to get asylum anywhere in Europe because one is fleeing from "unemployment". The expression makes little sense. These are economical migrants, who came to Europe illegally for the most, especially those who can afford to go back home because Germany didn't give them the job, the house and the welfare they thought they were entitled to.

ptaipale 11y ago
> One is not going to get asylum anywhere in Europe because one is fleeing from "unemployment". Quite true, asylum is not granted, but it is still very difficult to send back those whose asylum application is rejected. Often it is not even clear where to send people "back" because they have no papers (human traffickers instruct them to destroy or hide passports) and no one can really tell where they came from. The applicants have a right to appeal the decision; process takes years, then people make a new residence permit application based on "changed circumstances" (for instance, starting a family or having studied something) and more time passes. This will be particularly flammable in cases where even hardened criminals cannot be deported because now that they are criminals, their home country (if known) definitely won't take them back. And then the applicants may simply leave one country and emerge in another one as new applicants (unless biometric tracking is really started and made working). I predict volatile times and violence for Europe.
- Khaine 11y ago
  And this is why the Australian Government uses offshore processing. These people don't get to come to Australia. This has significantly deterred economic migrants from entering via boat. Leftists and Europeans derided it as a violation of human rights. Now I be many are secretly wishing they had implemented it.
  - kraut123 11y ago
    The left's intolerance veers toward totalitarianism.
  - a_bonobo 11y ago
    > This has significantly deterred economic migrants from entering via boat. This is hard to say - under "Operation Sovereign Borders" all boat arrivals are military secrets, so there's not much data on arrivals except what the government announces. The Australian navy has literally towed back boats in defiance of international laws (Wikipedia: "In August 2015, minister Dutton stated that since December 2013, 633 people on 20 vessels have been subject to turnback operations, including a boat from Vietnam in July), so at least on that front the boats haven't been quite stopped (they just don't go all the way any more). And as for the violation of human rights: you have a right to seek asylum. You're conveniently forgetting that people who have been placed on Nauru by the Australian government have been murdered and raped, completely unnecessary. Quote Wikipedia again: >In 2015, several staff members from the detention centre wrote an open letter claiming that multiple instances of sexual abuse against women and children had occurred.[6] The letter claimed that the Australian government had been aware of these abuses for over 18 months.[7] This letter added weight to the Moss review which found it possible that "guards had traded marijuana for sexual favours with asylum seeker children".[8] [9][10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru_Regional_Processing_Centre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru_Regional_Processing_Cent... We can't really judge the situation there because journalists or international observers are not allowed in.
    - Khaine 11y ago
      > This is hard to say We do know that IMAs have significantly decreased. As the department reports on the numbers in detention[1] (See figure 1) The ABC also kept a log of all reports[2] 1) http://www.border.gov.au/ReportsandPublications/Documents/statistics/immigration-detention-statistics-30-dec-2015.pdf http://www.border.gov.au/ReportsandPublications/Documents/st... 2) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-25/log-of-boat-arrivals-and-other-asylum-seeker-incidents/5014496 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-25/log-of-boat-arrivals-a...
  - 11y ago
- usrusr 11y ago
  That's the irony of the situation: those who not only have the insight that Europe isn't what they hoped for but also have the resolve to act on that insight are demonstrating qualities that would make them prime candidates for successful integration. It's a weird twist of the brain drain pattern. (But a good one, because those qualities will shine even more in the home country)

by aikah 11y ago

ptaipale 11y ago

> One is not going to get asylum anywhere in Europe because one is fleeing from "unemployment". Quite true, asylum is not granted, but it is still very difficult to send back those whose asylum application is rejected. Often it is not even clear where to send people "back" because they have no papers (human traffickers instruct them to destroy or hide passports) and no one can really tell where they came from. The applicants have a right to appeal the decision; process takes years, then people make a new residence permit application based on "changed circumstances" (for instance, starting a family or having studied something) and more time passes. This will be particularly flammable in cases where even hardened criminals cannot be deported because now that they are criminals, their home country (if known) definitely won't take them back. And then the applicants may simply leave one country and emerge in another one as new applicants (unless biometric tracking is really started and made working). I predict volatile times and violence for Europe.

Khaine 11y ago
And this is why the Australian Government uses offshore processing. These people don't get to come to Australia. This has significantly deterred economic migrants from entering via boat. Leftists and Europeans derided it as a violation of human rights. Now I be many are secretly wishing they had implemented it.
- kraut123 11y ago
  The left's intolerance veers toward totalitarianism.
- a_bonobo 11y ago
  > This has significantly deterred economic migrants from entering via boat. This is hard to say - under "Operation Sovereign Borders" all boat arrivals are military secrets, so there's not much data on arrivals except what the government announces. The Australian navy has literally towed back boats in defiance of international laws (Wikipedia: "In August 2015, minister Dutton stated that since December 2013, 633 people on 20 vessels have been subject to turnback operations, including a boat from Vietnam in July), so at least on that front the boats haven't been quite stopped (they just don't go all the way any more). And as for the violation of human rights: you have a right to seek asylum. You're conveniently forgetting that people who have been placed on Nauru by the Australian government have been murdered and raped, completely unnecessary. Quote Wikipedia again: >In 2015, several staff members from the detention centre wrote an open letter claiming that multiple instances of sexual abuse against women and children had occurred.[6] The letter claimed that the Australian government had been aware of these abuses for over 18 months.[7] This letter added weight to the Moss review which found it possible that "guards had traded marijuana for sexual favours with asylum seeker children".[8] [9][10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru_Regional_Processing_Centre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru_Regional_Processing_Cent... We can't really judge the situation there because journalists or international observers are not allowed in.
  - Khaine 11y ago
    > This is hard to say We do know that IMAs have significantly decreased. As the department reports on the numbers in detention[1] (See figure 1) The ABC also kept a log of all reports[2] 1) http://www.border.gov.au/ReportsandPublications/Documents/statistics/immigration-detention-statistics-30-dec-2015.pdf http://www.border.gov.au/ReportsandPublications/Documents/st... 2) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-25/log-of-boat-arrivals-and-other-asylum-seeker-incidents/5014496 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-25/log-of-boat-arrivals-a...
- 11y ago
usrusr 11y ago
That's the irony of the situation: those who not only have the insight that Europe isn't what they hoped for but also have the resolve to act on that insight are demonstrating qualities that would make them prime candidates for successful integration. It's a weird twist of the brain drain pattern. (But a good one, because those qualities will shine even more in the home country)