4 ms·

Why are western websites so empty?

Animats 11y ago
Good point. The current trend in web site design is You Will Begin Our Onboarding Process Now Or Else. YC companies are notable for this, with sites with little info and a huge "Sign up" box. (Often, this is because the product/service isn't shipping yet, so they're just building a mailing list.)
- tamana 11y ago
  Those aren't bad websites. Those are good websites for bad products.
- userbinator 11y ago
  Even non-YC companies, those long-established and with actual product, are following this trend, and I find it quite unpleasant too. When I come across a sparse page with one or two huge images and almost no text, I think to myself "where's all the content?" The whole "mobile first" movement is somewhat responsible too, popularising HUGE buttons and text that would be OK on a small smartphone or tablet screen but ridiculously awkward to use on a larger display.
- mikeash 11y ago
  What really pisses me off is when they keep doing this after they have a real product and real users. Signing up is easy, but if you're already a user then screw you, find the little login link in the corner.
michaelbuckbee 11y ago
The same reasons the article lays out - that the underlying aspects of the written language drives the difference. Which I thought was really interesting as I'd never really considered them.
- icegreentea 11y ago
  The article does a poor job differentiating between different types of "clutter". For example, while a single continuous block of chinese text will look more dense than latin script for the reasons outlined, it does not explain why chinese websites seem to lay out their blocks differently. Anecdotally, chinese webpages seems to be laid out far more like newspapers than latin script equivalents.
  - mook 11y ago
    It seems much easier to line break CJK (pay a bit of attention near punctuation, otherwise breaking anywhere would do a decent job). Compared to Latin-based languages, where hyphenation would be involved, which means understanding the actual language. Try forcing comments in this thread into 20em width, for example.
- jacalata 11y ago
  Then why did English language websites start out so cluttered? If it was an intrinsic result of the language then it wouldn't be a modern thing.
mmmBacon 11y ago
Nothing worse than a website that's a cluttered mess. I'm no designer but I think a minimalist design with negative (empty) space gives things a more modern, neat and clean look and makes the content easier to read/see (that's why I'm there in the 1st place).
pcurve 11y ago
Exactly. I go to cnn.com and wonder, "where's all the content?" I think dearth of content, and overuse of blank space has a lot to do with responsive web design run amok. You can have great tailored desktop, and mobile experience without pandering to RWD. My favorite example is Sankei. Desktop http://www.sankei.com/ http://www.sankei.com/ Mobile http://www.sankei.com/smp/ http://www.sankei.com/smp/ There's no weird 6 different media query breakpoints. (like Smashing Magazine site). It has one fixed width layout for desktop, chalk full of descriptive text links, and just the right amount of photos. Their mobile site is wonderful. Images are all lazy loaded. And you know what the best part is? Do "View Source" in either version. Look how clean and flat their markups are even with ad affiliate javascript code. There's more content than markups. Reuters and nytimes are decent, because they have a lot of text content on home page. But do "View Source" and their lack of code discipline and brevity shows compared to sankei. There's far more html code than actual content.

Good point. The current trend in web site design is You Will Begin Our Onboarding Process Now Or Else. YC companies are notable for this, with sites with little info and a huge "Sign up" box. (Often, this is because the product/service isn't shipping yet, so they're just building a mailing list.)

tamana 11y ago
Those aren't bad websites. Those are good websites for bad products.
userbinator 11y ago
Even non-YC companies, those long-established and with actual product, are following this trend, and I find it quite unpleasant too. When I come across a sparse page with one or two huge images and almost no text, I think to myself "where's all the content?" The whole "mobile first" movement is somewhat responsible too, popularising HUGE buttons and text that would be OK on a small smartphone or tablet screen but ridiculously awkward to use on a larger display.
mikeash 11y ago
What really pisses me off is when they keep doing this after they have a real product and real users. Signing up is easy, but if you're already a user then screw you, find the little login link in the corner.

michaelbuckbee 11y ago

The same reasons the article lays out - that the underlying aspects of the written language drives the difference. Which I thought was really interesting as I'd never really considered them.

icegreentea 11y ago
The article does a poor job differentiating between different types of "clutter". For example, while a single continuous block of chinese text will look more dense than latin script for the reasons outlined, it does not explain why chinese websites seem to lay out their blocks differently. Anecdotally, chinese webpages seems to be laid out far more like newspapers than latin script equivalents.
- mook 11y ago
  It seems much easier to line break CJK (pay a bit of attention near punctuation, otherwise breaking anywhere would do a decent job). Compared to Latin-based languages, where hyphenation would be involved, which means understanding the actual language. Try forcing comments in this thread into 20em width, for example.
jacalata 11y ago
Then why did English language websites start out so cluttered? If it was an intrinsic result of the language then it wouldn't be a modern thing.

mmmBacon 11y ago

Nothing worse than a website that's a cluttered mess. I'm no designer but I think a minimalist design with negative (empty) space gives things a more modern, neat and clean look and makes the content easier to read/see (that's why I'm there in the 1st place).

pcurve 11y ago

Exactly. I go to cnn.com and wonder, "where's all the content?" I think dearth of content, and overuse of blank space has a lot to do with responsive web design run amok. You can have great tailored desktop, and mobile experience without pandering to RWD. My favorite example is Sankei. Desktop http://www.sankei.com/ http://www.sankei.com/ Mobile http://www.sankei.com/smp/ http://www.sankei.com/smp/ There's no weird 6 different media query breakpoints. (like Smashing Magazine site). It has one fixed width layout for desktop, chalk full of descriptive text links, and just the right amount of photos. Their mobile site is wonderful. Images are all lazy loaded. And you know what the best part is? Do "View Source" in either version. Look how clean and flat their markups are even with ad affiliate javascript code. There's more content than markups. Reuters and nytimes are decent, because they have a lot of text content on home page. But do "View Source" and their lack of code discipline and brevity shows compared to sankei. There's far more html code than actual content.