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> Feminism won the fight for equality. Citation needed. By nearly any measure I can think of, women's political and professional lives are dominated by men's i

> Feminism won the fight for equality. Citation needed. By nearly any measure I can think of, women's political and professional lives are dominated by men's ideas and policies to an absurd degree. Asking for consideration of others' differences is not putting the clock back -- we weren't even having the conversation a few decades ago. Talking about the nuances of that discussion now is not regression. > Claims of harassment are easy to make. Again, citation needed. It's not like someone can say the word "harassment" and then distance themselves from anything that happens afterwards and be free of all consequences. Since we're talking about GitHub specifically, how easy do you think it's been for Julie Ann Horvath to find a job? Regardless of whether I happen to believe her or not, the fact of her statement doomed her career among the more mainline professional networks of Silicon Valley. She's radioactive now. So, I wouldn't call that "easy" by any stretch.

factsandstuff 11y ago
There have been github staff that have shared what they see as more of the story. https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d96f431f4e8 https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d... If someone pulled those kind of stunts on you, I think your sympathy over their career would be limited also.
PieterH 11y ago
She works as a senior designer at Apple.
- drhayes9 11y ago
  Good for her! How does this continue the discussion?
  - PieterH 11y ago
    It negates the theory that harassment whistle blowers are unemployable. In that respect, it does not continue this particular discussion, it ends it.
    - drhayes9 11y ago
      That's a cute rhetorical point you've made, but I think the evidence for whistleblowers torpedoing their careers in the name of personal justice is pretty overwhelming. The fact of her eventual employment doesn't undo the damage she did to her career by making an accusation -- which is the point I was addressing from the original comment that "...[c]laims of harassment are easy to make".
tzs 11y ago
> Since we're talking about GitHub specifically, how easy do you think it's been for Julie Ann Horvath to find a job? It doesn't look like she's had too much difficulty on the employment front, based on her LinkedIn profile. The same month she left GitHub she got a job as Senior Designer and Web Developer (same title as she had at GitHub) at &yet in Seattle. When she left that job there was a 4 month gap and then she was Head of Design at Clef in Oakland. She left them at the end of 2015 and started the new year as a Senior User Experience Designer at Apple. I don't think we can infer anything about job finding difficulty from that 4 month gap between &yet and Clef, because she moved from Seattle back to the Bay Area sometime in or near that gap, and it is not uncommon for people to take some time off between jobs when changing cities.
- drhayes9 11y ago
  As I've pointed out elsewhere: the original claim was "...[c]laims of harassment are easy to make". Are you voting that they are "easy"? Here is an anonymous hit-piece written about Horvath and posted on Medium: https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d96f431f4e8e#.breg6euh7 https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d... I'm not saying she was forever un-employable. But I am saying that like any other whistleblower in any other industry decrying her accusation as "easy" is an insult to what she went through. EDIT: Hell, there's a flagged comment on this branch that proves my point: "If someone pulled those kind of stunts on you, I think your sympathy over their career would be limited also."
  - tzs 11y ago
    > As I've pointed out elsewhere: the original claim was "...[c]laims of harassment are easy to make". Are you voting that they are "easy"? I'm not "voting" on anything, nor even offering an opinion on that particular aspect of your discussion with the poster above you. You posed a specific question: "Since we're talking about GitHub specifically, how easy do you think it's been for Julie Ann Horvath to find a job?". I was curious enough to spend a few minutes looking at her LinkedIn and then a couple other public things of hers (a Medium article and her Twitter profile) to try to get an idea what the answer was to that one specific question from your comment.
merpnderp 11y ago
Can you give a few examples of women's political and professional lives being dominated by men's ideas and policies to an absurd degree?
- merpnderp 11y ago
  Lol so self evident anyone who asks for an example is downvoted.

factsandstuff 11y ago

There have been github staff that have shared what they see as more of the story. https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d96f431f4e8 https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d... If someone pulled those kind of stunts on you, I think your sympathy over their career would be limited also.

PieterH 11y ago

She works as a senior designer at Apple.

drhayes9 11y ago
Good for her! How does this continue the discussion?
- PieterH 11y ago
  It negates the theory that harassment whistle blowers are unemployable. In that respect, it does not continue this particular discussion, it ends it.
  - drhayes9 11y ago
    That's a cute rhetorical point you've made, but I think the evidence for whistleblowers torpedoing their careers in the name of personal justice is pretty overwhelming. The fact of her eventual employment doesn't undo the damage she did to her career by making an accusation -- which is the point I was addressing from the original comment that "...[c]laims of harassment are easy to make".

tzs 11y ago

> Since we're talking about GitHub specifically, how easy do you think it's been for Julie Ann Horvath to find a job? It doesn't look like she's had too much difficulty on the employment front, based on her LinkedIn profile. The same month she left GitHub she got a job as Senior Designer and Web Developer (same title as she had at GitHub) at &yet in Seattle. When she left that job there was a 4 month gap and then she was Head of Design at Clef in Oakland. She left them at the end of 2015 and started the new year as a Senior User Experience Designer at Apple. I don't think we can infer anything about job finding difficulty from that 4 month gap between &yet and Clef, because she moved from Seattle back to the Bay Area sometime in or near that gap, and it is not uncommon for people to take some time off between jobs when changing cities.

drhayes9 11y ago
As I've pointed out elsewhere: the original claim was "...[c]laims of harassment are easy to make". Are you voting that they are "easy"? Here is an anonymous hit-piece written about Horvath and posted on Medium: https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d96f431f4e8e#.breg6euh7 https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d... I'm not saying she was forever un-employable. But I am saying that like any other whistleblower in any other industry decrying her accusation as "easy" is an insult to what she went through. EDIT: Hell, there's a flagged comment on this branch that proves my point: "If someone pulled those kind of stunts on you, I think your sympathy over their career would be limited also."
- tzs 11y ago
  > As I've pointed out elsewhere: the original claim was "...[c]laims of harassment are easy to make". Are you voting that they are "easy"? I'm not "voting" on anything, nor even offering an opinion on that particular aspect of your discussion with the poster above you. You posed a specific question: "Since we're talking about GitHub specifically, how easy do you think it's been for Julie Ann Horvath to find a job?". I was curious enough to spend a few minutes looking at her LinkedIn and then a couple other public things of hers (a Medium article and her Twitter profile) to try to get an idea what the answer was to that one specific question from your comment.

merpnderp 11y ago

Can you give a few examples of women's political and professional lives being dominated by men's ideas and policies to an absurd degree?

merpnderp 11y ago
Lol so self evident anyone who asks for an example is downvoted.