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Snowden exposed a vast amount of criminal activity within our government, and the governments response is "lets prosecute snowden!" ... no reforms, no groundswe

by MCRed 11y ago

Snowden exposed a vast amount of criminal activity within our government, and the governments response is "lets prosecute snowden!" ... no reforms, no groundswell for reform. The spying isn't even a topic in the upcoming election. Since 2001, we have only seen the government go the opposite way- gathering more power, from the creation of the TSA to NDAA they are clearly not beholden to the people. (I don't believe most people support this, if accurately educated about the scientific and legal basis of these- thousands of TSA agents have been arrested for crimes that victimize travelers, they fail tests to see if they will catch bombs, and no terrorists have been found...and this isn't just Bush's doing - NDAA and the porno scanners happened under Obama, and during the whole period we haven't been seeing congressmen of either party attempt to stop it (though Rand Paul did a filibuster at one point.)) The fundamental problem is that the US government- at all levels, and across parties- is not answerable to the people or for their crimes. This is why I'm an anarchist- I believe no government can be kept accountable.

chasing 11y ago
If you're not the person with either the most money or the most guns, anarchy ain't going to work out very well for you. Because once those with the largest amount of power don't have to play by any rules, well, it's game on. And I suspect almost all of us will be in the 99.99999% of the population that loses that game pretty badly...
maxxxxx 11y ago
The anarchist position is totally self defeating. We live in a complex society so some systems are needed. You can't do without a functioning justice system, functioning infrastructure, a financial system you can trust not to steal your money and other things. The market can't provide these things without some rules. I really wish people would start asking for government accountability instead of wanting to abolish things that don't work and thinking that there is some magic fairy that will jump in and make it work. Getting systems to work well is hard, never-ending work and there are no simple solutions. Most of us here build technology systems so we should know this first hand.
- qntty 11y ago
  Not that I'm advocating anarchism, but you misunderstand what anarchism is if you think that it doesn't involve complex systems. The dream of anarchism is to have a stateless society, where there's no top-down control, not one without complex social institutions. In fact, an anarchist society would require more complex systems in order to function.
  - maxxxxx 11y ago
    That's the same fantasy like extreme libertarianism. How do you build a power grid? How do you build national defense? How do conflicts get resolved? I have never heard a real answer to those questions.
    - dawnbreez 11y ago
      As a not-so-extreme libertarian: >Power companies are responsible for their own infrastructure. >National defense is a tricky one. Maybe PMCs. >Conflicts are basically impossible to resolve without some variety of authority; this is why more moderate libertarianism works better
      - bronson 11y ago
        >Power companies are responsible for their own infrastructure. You think they'll be able to negotiate easements and rights of way to each house? (without starting to look like a public entity?) >National defense is a tricky one. Maybe PMCs. So, Somalia? Blackwater? >Conflicts are basically impossible to resolve without some variety of authority; this is why more moderate libertarianism works better Extremely moderate libertarianism? There are more conventional names for that.
        dllthomas 11y ago
        > Extremely moderate libertarianism? There are more conventional names for that. Per my understanding, mainstream Libertarianism retains the court system as mediator of contractual disputes as well as criminal law.

by MCRed 11y ago

chasing 11y ago

If you're not the person with either the most money or the most guns, anarchy ain't going to work out very well for you. Because once those with the largest amount of power don't have to play by any rules, well, it's game on. And I suspect almost all of us will be in the 99.99999% of the population that loses that game pretty badly...

maxxxxx 11y ago

The anarchist position is totally self defeating. We live in a complex society so some systems are needed. You can't do without a functioning justice system, functioning infrastructure, a financial system you can trust not to steal your money and other things. The market can't provide these things without some rules. I really wish people would start asking for government accountability instead of wanting to abolish things that don't work and thinking that there is some magic fairy that will jump in and make it work. Getting systems to work well is hard, never-ending work and there are no simple solutions. Most of us here build technology systems so we should know this first hand.

qntty 11y ago
Not that I'm advocating anarchism, but you misunderstand what anarchism is if you think that it doesn't involve complex systems. The dream of anarchism is to have a stateless society, where there's no top-down control, not one without complex social institutions. In fact, an anarchist society would require more complex systems in order to function.
- maxxxxx 11y ago
  That's the same fantasy like extreme libertarianism. How do you build a power grid? How do you build national defense? How do conflicts get resolved? I have never heard a real answer to those questions.
  - dawnbreez 11y ago
    As a not-so-extreme libertarian: >Power companies are responsible for their own infrastructure. >National defense is a tricky one. Maybe PMCs. >Conflicts are basically impossible to resolve without some variety of authority; this is why more moderate libertarianism works better
    - bronson 11y ago
      >Power companies are responsible for their own infrastructure. You think they'll be able to negotiate easements and rights of way to each house? (without starting to look like a public entity?) >National defense is a tricky one. Maybe PMCs. So, Somalia? Blackwater? >Conflicts are basically impossible to resolve without some variety of authority; this is why more moderate libertarianism works better Extremely moderate libertarianism? There are more conventional names for that.
      - dllthomas 11y ago
        > Extremely moderate libertarianism? There are more conventional names for that. Per my understanding, mainstream Libertarianism retains the court system as mediator of contractual disputes as well as criminal law.