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The article liberally drops anti-Chinese sentiment at every paragraph. Things like: "Of Chinese heritage, Liew was born in Malaysia in August 1957." That woul

The article liberally drops anti-Chinese sentiment at every paragraph. Things like: "Of Chinese heritage, Liew was born in Malaysia in August 1957." That would be the equivalent of writing: "Of Kenyan heritage, Obama was born in the USA".

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
chaostheory 11y ago
I don't disagree with you. However the article does bring up a topic that isn't discussed that often yet. Where do the loyalties of naturalized US (and Canadian) citizens truely lie? I feel that this was less of an issue until the US began allowing dual citizenships i.e. you no longer have to renounce citizenship from your country of origin in order to become a US citizen / you can become a citizen of another country and still be a US citizen. On the surface, you'd expect this to be simple; these individuals would be most loyal to the US... As a naturalized US citizen of Chinese descent, I've had some interesting conversations with other naturalized US citizens of Chinese descent that would show that it's more complicated than that. I'm not sure how, but the topic of "what would happen if China and the US ever declared war on each other?" came up. To my surprise, the other naturalized Chinese Americans told me that they would be conflicted as to who they would support. For context, these are educated people with post-grad degrees from places like Berkeley with occupations to match. They also seem completely naturalized with accents that would fool people into thinking they were born and raised here. The kicker is that neither person was born or raised in China but each grew up in some Southeast Asian country, yet they're essentially comtemplating treason solely due to their race. I found it strange. Since what I have is just anecdotal, I'm guessing (and hoping) that most naturalized US citizens are way more loyal than that and I feel that Chinese Americans born and raised in the US don't have this issue at all. Still I have a feeling that this is probably only going to get worse when you have stuff like birth tourism happening i.e. You get US citizens who spend most of their lives in a foreign country resulting in loyalties to that foreign country http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/01/china-us-birth-tourism_n_7187180.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/01/china-us-birth-tour... To be fair, China isn't the only country related to this issue. I could be wrong but the US probably has the same problem with dual citizenships involving Russia, Israel, Turkey, or any other country that isn't 100% aligned with US interests Of course, this has a fix. Just don't allow dual citizenships in the US. Force people to choose.
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  This is the same thinking that put hundreds of thousands of Japanese Americans in concentration camps.
  - chaostheory 11y ago
    How would ending dual citizenship lead to internment camps? Did you even fully read my comment?
    - madaxe_again 11y ago
      Because you buy into the idea of opposing ideologies, of national identity, of otherness, of suspicion based on nationality. You can, rather, look at this from the perspective of arguing parents, where they want you to pick one or the other. The only way to win is to not play, and to derive identity from your self, rather than what patch of dirt you happened to be born upon.
      - chaostheory 11y ago
        > Because you buy into the idea of opposing ideologies, of national identity In an ideal world, we wouldn't have things like this or racism; but it's extremely naive to pretend it doesn't exist. If you have any familiarity with current events in East Asia, you'll know that nationalism is on the rise. On a related note, did you not read this portion of my comment? "I'm guessing (and hoping) that most naturalized US citizens are way more loyal than that and I feel that Chinese Americans born and raised in the US don't have this issue at all." Everything isn't black and white. > You can, rather, look at this from the perspective of arguing parents, where they want you to pick one or the other. The only way to win is to not play, and to derive identity from your self, rather than what patch of dirt you happened to be born upon. There are multiple problems with this analogy. 1. You only get the 3rd choice if you're willing not to live in either parent's house when we're talking countries. 2. Another problem is that you're looking at this from a Western perspective. In the East, especially in Asia; you derive your identify more from the group and not the individual; so if you consider yourself more 'Chinese' than 'American', you're going to symphatize more with one side. It's a different culture that you're obviously not familiar with.
blackbagboys 11y ago
Considering that overwhelming evidence that he was a paid agent of the Chinese government who was recruited on the basis of his ethnicity, it seems highly relevant.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

chaostheory 11y ago

I don't disagree with you. However the article does bring up a topic that isn't discussed that often yet. Where do the loyalties of naturalized US (and Canadian) citizens truely lie? I feel that this was less of an issue until the US began allowing dual citizenships i.e. you no longer have to renounce citizenship from your country of origin in order to become a US citizen / you can become a citizen of another country and still be a US citizen. On the surface, you'd expect this to be simple; these individuals would be most loyal to the US... As a naturalized US citizen of Chinese descent, I've had some interesting conversations with other naturalized US citizens of Chinese descent that would show that it's more complicated than that. I'm not sure how, but the topic of "what would happen if China and the US ever declared war on each other?" came up. To my surprise, the other naturalized Chinese Americans told me that they would be conflicted as to who they would support. For context, these are educated people with post-grad degrees from places like Berkeley with occupations to match. They also seem completely naturalized with accents that would fool people into thinking they were born and raised here. The kicker is that neither person was born or raised in China but each grew up in some Southeast Asian country, yet they're essentially comtemplating treason solely due to their race. I found it strange. Since what I have is just anecdotal, I'm guessing (and hoping) that most naturalized US citizens are way more loyal than that and I feel that Chinese Americans born and raised in the US don't have this issue at all. Still I have a feeling that this is probably only going to get worse when you have stuff like birth tourism happening i.e. You get US citizens who spend most of their lives in a foreign country resulting in loyalties to that foreign country http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/01/china-us-birth-tourism_n_7187180.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/01/china-us-birth-tour... To be fair, China isn't the only country related to this issue. I could be wrong but the US probably has the same problem with dual citizenships involving Russia, Israel, Turkey, or any other country that isn't 100% aligned with US interests Of course, this has a fix. Just don't allow dual citizenships in the US. Force people to choose.

madaxe_again 11y ago
This is the same thinking that put hundreds of thousands of Japanese Americans in concentration camps.
- chaostheory 11y ago
  How would ending dual citizenship lead to internment camps? Did you even fully read my comment?
  - madaxe_again 11y ago
    Because you buy into the idea of opposing ideologies, of national identity, of otherness, of suspicion based on nationality. You can, rather, look at this from the perspective of arguing parents, where they want you to pick one or the other. The only way to win is to not play, and to derive identity from your self, rather than what patch of dirt you happened to be born upon.
    - chaostheory 11y ago
      > Because you buy into the idea of opposing ideologies, of national identity In an ideal world, we wouldn't have things like this or racism; but it's extremely naive to pretend it doesn't exist. If you have any familiarity with current events in East Asia, you'll know that nationalism is on the rise. On a related note, did you not read this portion of my comment? "I'm guessing (and hoping) that most naturalized US citizens are way more loyal than that and I feel that Chinese Americans born and raised in the US don't have this issue at all." Everything isn't black and white. > You can, rather, look at this from the perspective of arguing parents, where they want you to pick one or the other. The only way to win is to not play, and to derive identity from your self, rather than what patch of dirt you happened to be born upon. There are multiple problems with this analogy. 1. You only get the 3rd choice if you're willing not to live in either parent's house when we're talking countries. 2. Another problem is that you're looking at this from a Western perspective. In the East, especially in Asia; you derive your identify more from the group and not the individual; so if you consider yourself more 'Chinese' than 'American', you're going to symphatize more with one side. It's a different culture that you're obviously not familiar with.

blackbagboys 11y ago

Considering that overwhelming evidence that he was a paid agent of the Chinese government who was recruited on the basis of his ethnicity, it seems highly relevant.