4 ms·

Don't guess when the actual 2015 budget is a single search away: https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/ https://www.nati

Don't guess when the actual 2015 budget is a single search away: https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/ https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bud... Your $1.5T number for military isn't backed up by facts as the entire discretionary spending for all agencies is only $1.1T US per capita healthcare spending - do you mean Medicare and Medicaid? I'm not sure how you came up with this number because $8.6k * 320M people = $2.75T which would be about 66% of the federal budget. Social Security itself is closer to 33% of the federal budget, not the 24% you cite.

qrendel 11y ago
Wikipedia gives 24% for both healthcare and social security for 2014.[1] Total military spending is more complicated but is estimated at 28-38% of the total budget (though no citation).[2] That gives somewhere between 0.98 and 1.33 trillion, so I guess I was off there, but it has been much higher at (estimated) 54% in recent years. Per capita healthcare spending is similarly estimated at $8,713 for 2014 or $9,146 for 2013 depending on which of those estimates you go with.[3] Presumably that includes total healthcare spending, public and private, but the issue is how much potential savings are there to pay for a UBI (by switching to a more effective healthcare system), so I think the total is relevant still, not just medicare + medicaid. Your 33% number for SS seems to come from the inclusion of spending on unemployment and labor. The military spending being larger than total discretionary probably comes from inclusion of veteran's benefits and other programs included in with mandatory. The exact numbers aside, I think the larger point still stands that the money is there - once you start looking at how much money is already being spent it's not hard to imagine getting a few trillion together for a UBI. Political feasibility is another matter, I agree it probably won't happen anytime soon for that reason, but saying it's economically infeasible just seems... wrong. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_F... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Military_budget_and_total_US_federal_spending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...
spangry 11y ago
Discretionary spending doesn't even make up half of US Federal Government outlays. The CBO estimates that total budget outlays in 2014 were 3.5 trillion dollars (https://www.cbo.gov/about/products/budget_economic_data#2 https://www.cbo.gov/about/products/budget_economic_data#2). As for how much the US actually spends on Defense alone (as in the function, not just the discretionary portion of the budget that goes to the DoD), no one really knows for sure. The only estimate I can find is on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense#Budget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_De...) and all the references lead to dead links. However, for whatever reason, the Oregon State Hospital hosts a copy of one of these documents (the 2010 DoD Agency Financial Report: http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/otherfiles/Fiscal_Year_2010_DoD_Agencywide_Agency%20Financial%20Report.pdf http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/otherfiles/Fiscal_Year_...) Buried on page 58, in an appendix, are the actual numbers: 1.2 trillion dollars total DoD budgetary resources in 2010. The GAO have previously stated that DoD financials are so messed up that they are unauditable: As was the case in 2010, the main obstacles to a GAO opinion on the accrual- based consolidated financial statements were: (1) serious financial management problems at the Department of Defense (DOD) that made its financial statements unauditable [http://www.gao.gov/press/financial_report_2011dec23.html http://www.gao.gov/press/financial_report_2011dec23.html] But don't worry, the DoD have a plan to have proper financial statements by 2017... [http://www.gao.gov/highrisk/dod_financial_management/why_did_study#t=1 http://www.gao.gov/highrisk/dod_financial_management/why_did...]

qrendel 11y ago

Wikipedia gives 24% for both healthcare and social security for 2014.[1] Total military spending is more complicated but is estimated at 28-38% of the total budget (though no citation).[2] That gives somewhere between 0.98 and 1.33 trillion, so I guess I was off there, but it has been much higher at (estimated) 54% in recent years. Per capita healthcare spending is similarly estimated at $8,713 for 2014 or $9,146 for 2013 depending on which of those estimates you go with.[3] Presumably that includes total healthcare spending, public and private, but the issue is how much potential savings are there to pay for a UBI (by switching to a more effective healthcare system), so I think the total is relevant still, not just medicare + medicaid. Your 33% number for SS seems to come from the inclusion of spending on unemployment and labor. The military spending being larger than total discretionary probably comes from inclusion of veteran's benefits and other programs included in with mandatory. The exact numbers aside, I think the larger point still stands that the money is there - once you start looking at how much money is already being spent it's not hard to imagine getting a few trillion together for a UBI. Political feasibility is another matter, I agree it probably won't happen anytime soon for that reason, but saying it's economically infeasible just seems... wrong. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_F... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Military_budget_and_total_US_federal_spending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

spangry 11y ago

Discretionary spending doesn't even make up half of US Federal Government outlays. The CBO estimates that total budget outlays in 2014 were 3.5 trillion dollars (https://www.cbo.gov/about/products/budget_economic_data#2 https://www.cbo.gov/about/products/budget_economic_data#2). As for how much the US actually spends on Defense alone (as in the function, not just the discretionary portion of the budget that goes to the DoD), no one really knows for sure. The only estimate I can find is on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense#Budget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_De...) and all the references lead to dead links. However, for whatever reason, the Oregon State Hospital hosts a copy of one of these documents (the 2010 DoD Agency Financial Report: http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/otherfiles/Fiscal_Year_2010_DoD_Agencywide_Agency%20Financial%20Report.pdf http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/otherfiles/Fiscal_Year_...) Buried on page 58, in an appendix, are the actual numbers: 1.2 trillion dollars total DoD budgetary resources in 2010. The GAO have previously stated that DoD financials are so messed up that they are unauditable: As was the case in 2010, the main obstacles to a GAO opinion on the accrual- based consolidated financial statements were: (1) serious financial management problems at the Department of Defense (DOD) that made its financial statements unauditable [http://www.gao.gov/press/financial_report_2011dec23.html http://www.gao.gov/press/financial_report_2011dec23.html] But don't worry, the DoD have a plan to have proper financial statements by 2017... [http://www.gao.gov/highrisk/dod_financial_management/why_did_study#t=1 http://www.gao.gov/highrisk/dod_financial_management/why_did...]