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On Office Ergonomics: An Interview with Thomas Levine

13 points by of 11y ago

FrojoS 11y ago
"TL: One major reason why people experience pain while at work is that they seek stress and pain in their work; this is often called "work ethic" or "hard work". If work ethic is very important to you and you manage to make your workstation more comfortable, you should look for other sources of stress and pain to compensate to compensate for the new-found comfort. (An easy one is just to work longer.) Similarly, you probably already work very comfortably if you value relaxation and health; if that is the case my above recommendations will probably have only small impacts. ~*"
Rockslide 11y ago
"Kinesis contoured keyboards are nice except they don’t have forearm support because they’re above the table. ... If these keyboards could be recessed in the desk rather than rested upon the desk, they could be neat." 1000x this. I recently got a Kinesis and this indeed is my single big problem with it. Any Kinesis owners here that can recommend a practical setup that allows to rest forearms and which is applicable to office inventory I don't own (read: non-destructive)?
- jacobolus 11y ago
  People usually need to rest their palms/wrists/forearms/elbows because they are either (a) reaching their arms out forward or (b) holding their arms up with their elbows sticking out to the side. The strain on the back/shoulders/upper arms from holding the arms up for an extended period of time then forces the use of some kind of support for relief. The typical reason for either of these is too high a desk relative to the height of the chair, and a keyboard which is too far in front of the body. If you hold your keyboard close in to your torso such that your back is straight, your shoulders are relaxed, and your upper arms hang loosely at your sides, then this is not really a problem. If you watch e.g. professional pianists or court reporters, or look at videos of secretaries from the 60s, you’ll see no palmrests/armrests in sight. However, you must also make sure to keep your wrists in a nearly straight, neutral position. One intervention that might help is raising your chair relative to your desk. Alternately, if you have a low chair / high desk and neither is adjustable, tilting the keyboard up at the far end (e.g. by piling a book or two underneath that side) can help considerably.
  - Rockslide 11y ago
    I appreciate your suggestions and will give them a try. One potential problem I see is that while my desk and chair are height-adjustable, unfortunately the armrests of my chair are not. That could get in the way of "hanging my arms loosely at my sides".
jacobolus 11y ago
“I have seen very few input devices that reduce this static loading and are still as intuitive as keyboards or mice.” Getting a keyboard split into two independent halves makes a huge difference to the ability to adjust the workspace to reduce static strain. One of the best currently available options, with a very easy learning curve, is the Matias ErgoPro: http://matias.ca/ergopro/ http://matias.ca/ergopro/ As for mice: trackpads, trackballs, roller mice, and pen tablets are all potentially more comfortable. Mice with different shapes can help, e.g. those ones with the vertically oriented body which requires less wrist pronation. Even without changing hardware, repositioning the mouse or adjusting desk or chair can make a huge difference to mousing comfort.
- troydavis 11y ago
  For a vertical mouse, consider the Evoluent VerticalMouse: http://evoluent.com/products/vm4r/ http://evoluent.com/products/vm4r/ Regarding the interviewee's comment about portability, my VM and Kinesis Freestyle (http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/ http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/) traveled 25,000+ miles on a dozen flights in the past few years. Split keyboards are incredibly portable. Combine with a Crate or Stanton foldable stand to elevate the laptop. For anyone choosing a keyboard, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9605262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9605262 has more comments.

13 points by of 11y ago

"TL: One major reason why people experience pain while at work is that they seek stress and pain in their work; this is often called "work ethic" or "hard work". If work ethic is very important to you and you manage to make your workstation more comfortable, you should look for other sources of stress and pain to compensate to compensate for the new-found comfort. (An easy one is just to work longer.) Similarly, you probably already work very comfortably if you value relaxation and health; if that is the case my above recommendations will probably have only small impacts. ~*"

Rockslide 11y ago

"Kinesis contoured keyboards are nice except they don’t have forearm support because they’re above the table. ... If these keyboards could be recessed in the desk rather than rested upon the desk, they could be neat." 1000x this. I recently got a Kinesis and this indeed is my single big problem with it. Any Kinesis owners here that can recommend a practical setup that allows to rest forearms and which is applicable to office inventory I don't own (read: non-destructive)?

jacobolus 11y ago
People usually need to rest their palms/wrists/forearms/elbows because they are either (a) reaching their arms out forward or (b) holding their arms up with their elbows sticking out to the side. The strain on the back/shoulders/upper arms from holding the arms up for an extended period of time then forces the use of some kind of support for relief. The typical reason for either of these is too high a desk relative to the height of the chair, and a keyboard which is too far in front of the body. If you hold your keyboard close in to your torso such that your back is straight, your shoulders are relaxed, and your upper arms hang loosely at your sides, then this is not really a problem. If you watch e.g. professional pianists or court reporters, or look at videos of secretaries from the 60s, you’ll see no palmrests/armrests in sight. However, you must also make sure to keep your wrists in a nearly straight, neutral position. One intervention that might help is raising your chair relative to your desk. Alternately, if you have a low chair / high desk and neither is adjustable, tilting the keyboard up at the far end (e.g. by piling a book or two underneath that side) can help considerably.
- Rockslide 11y ago
  I appreciate your suggestions and will give them a try. One potential problem I see is that while my desk and chair are height-adjustable, unfortunately the armrests of my chair are not. That could get in the way of "hanging my arms loosely at my sides".

jacobolus 11y ago

“I have seen very few input devices that reduce this static loading and are still as intuitive as keyboards or mice.” Getting a keyboard split into two independent halves makes a huge difference to the ability to adjust the workspace to reduce static strain. One of the best currently available options, with a very easy learning curve, is the Matias ErgoPro: http://matias.ca/ergopro/ http://matias.ca/ergopro/ As for mice: trackpads, trackballs, roller mice, and pen tablets are all potentially more comfortable. Mice with different shapes can help, e.g. those ones with the vertically oriented body which requires less wrist pronation. Even without changing hardware, repositioning the mouse or adjusting desk or chair can make a huge difference to mousing comfort.

troydavis 11y ago
For a vertical mouse, consider the Evoluent VerticalMouse: http://evoluent.com/products/vm4r/ http://evoluent.com/products/vm4r/ Regarding the interviewee's comment about portability, my VM and Kinesis Freestyle (http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/ http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/) traveled 25,000+ miles on a dozen flights in the past few years. Split keyboards are incredibly portable. Combine with a Crate or Stanton foldable stand to elevate the laptop. For anyone choosing a keyboard, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9605262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9605262 has more comments.