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I don't believe that's true. Could you please paste the pertinent text from the 10-K? I was not able to find it. As far as I know the cell chemistry in use w

by danhak 11y ago

I don't believe that's true. Could you please paste the pertinent text from the 10-K? I was not able to find it. As far as I know the cell chemistry in use was developed jointly and I believe Tesla holds patent although I'm not able to find a source at the moment.

dragontamer 11y ago
https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-and-panasonic-collaborate-develop-nextgeneration-battery-cell-technology https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-and-panasonic-collabo... > “Being selected by Tesla to provide cells for their current and next- generation EV battery pack is a tremendous validation of Panasonic’s nickel-based chemistry and the extensive investments Panasonic continues to make in lithium ion R&D and production,” said Naoto Noguchi, President of Panasonic Energy Company. TSLA patents are in regards to batteries: collections of cells working together. But the Lithium needs to be turned into a cell... before collections of cells can turn into a battery.
- danhak 11y ago
  The link you posted is from 2010--roadster days. The cells used in the roadster are not the same as those in the Model S. And Model 3 will be using new cells as well. There's been immense R&D by both parties since 2010, and the latest supply agreement was finalized July 2014. I'm hoping for something a little more formal than a PR blurb--like an SEC filing as grandparent alluded to.
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    Not really. 18650 cells are still being deployed by TSLA. The hypothetical Gigafactory 26650 cells aren't out yet. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-backs-teslas-gigafactory-investing-190107913.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-backs-teslas-gigafac... But considering the $1.6 Billion investment from Panasonic, it looks like Panasonic owns at least half of the gigafactory. This suggests that Panasonic still owns the cell technology / chemistry.
    - danhak 11y ago
      18650 refers to the cell form factor--the size and shape--and has nothing to do with the chemistry inside. It's like saying two PC motherboards are the same because they're both ATX. The cells in the original roadster were 3.7 V / 2100 mAh vs. 3.6 V / 3100 mAh for the latest. They're both 18650 cells--completely different chemistry.
      - makomk 11y ago
        More specifically, Tesla's shipping Panasonic NCR16850A cells with Panasonic's newish LiNiCoO2 chemistry - same as in a lot of more modern laptop batteries. The Roadster was presumably one of their older cells like the CGR18650.

by danhak 11y ago

dragontamer 11y ago

https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-and-panasonic-collaborate-develop-nextgeneration-battery-cell-technology https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-and-panasonic-collabo... > “Being selected by Tesla to provide cells for their current and next- generation EV battery pack is a tremendous validation of Panasonic’s nickel-based chemistry and the extensive investments Panasonic continues to make in lithium ion R&D and production,” said Naoto Noguchi, President of Panasonic Energy Company. TSLA patents are in regards to batteries: collections of cells working together. But the Lithium needs to be turned into a cell... before collections of cells can turn into a battery.

danhak 11y ago
The link you posted is from 2010--roadster days. The cells used in the roadster are not the same as those in the Model S. And Model 3 will be using new cells as well. There's been immense R&D by both parties since 2010, and the latest supply agreement was finalized July 2014. I'm hoping for something a little more formal than a PR blurb--like an SEC filing as grandparent alluded to.
- dragontamer 11y ago
  Not really. 18650 cells are still being deployed by TSLA. The hypothetical Gigafactory 26650 cells aren't out yet. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-backs-teslas-gigafactory-investing-190107913.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-backs-teslas-gigafac... But considering the $1.6 Billion investment from Panasonic, it looks like Panasonic owns at least half of the gigafactory. This suggests that Panasonic still owns the cell technology / chemistry.
  - danhak 11y ago
    18650 refers to the cell form factor--the size and shape--and has nothing to do with the chemistry inside. It's like saying two PC motherboards are the same because they're both ATX. The cells in the original roadster were 3.7 V / 2100 mAh vs. 3.6 V / 3100 mAh for the latest. They're both 18650 cells--completely different chemistry.
    - makomk 11y ago
      More specifically, Tesla's shipping Panasonic NCR16850A cells with Panasonic's newish LiNiCoO2 chemistry - same as in a lot of more modern laptop batteries. The Roadster was presumably one of their older cells like the CGR18650.