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Except Tesla licenses their battery tech from Panasonic. Says so in the 10-K. Anyone else is free to make a deal with Panasonic
by Riod 11y ago
Except Tesla licenses their battery tech from Panasonic. Says so in the 10-K. Anyone else is free to make a deal with Panasonic
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- dragontamer 11y agoTesla has their own battery technology. But the chemistry belongs to Panasonic, who creates cells. You combine cells (like the 18650) together to create batteries. The Gigafactory is trying to make 26650 cells, which should be more efficient in cars than the 18650 cells (which were originally designed for laptops) Tesla's use of 18650 was highly innovative. They "hacked" growth into their company by taking advantage of the scale and scope of laptop manufacturers. But now that TSLA is one of the largest users of Lithium Ion in the world, they need to come up with a more efficient, car-specific cell design now.
- Riod 11y agoThat's exactly it. They haven't yet. Right now what they do is assembly. Look up what Chanos said about Tesla.
- danhak 11y agoI don't believe that's true. Could you please paste the pertinent text from the 10-K? I was not able to find it. As far as I know the cell chemistry in use was developed jointly and I believe Tesla holds patent although I'm not able to find a source at the moment.
- dragontamer 11y agohttps://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-and-panasonic-collaborate-develop-nextgeneration-battery-cell-technology https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-and-panasonic-collabo... > “Being selected by Tesla to provide cells for their current and next- generation EV battery pack is a tremendous validation of Panasonic’s nickel-based chemistry and the extensive investments Panasonic continues to make in lithium ion R&D and production,” said Naoto Noguchi, President of Panasonic Energy Company. TSLA patents are in regards to batteries: collections of cells working together. But the Lithium needs to be turned into a cell... before collections of cells can turn into a battery.
- danhak 11y agoThe link you posted is from 2010--roadster days. The cells used in the roadster are not the same as those in the Model S. And Model 3 will be using new cells as well. There's been immense R&D by both parties since 2010, and the latest supply agreement was finalized July 2014. I'm hoping for something a little more formal than a PR blurb--like an SEC filing as grandparent alluded to.
- dragontamer 11y agoNot really. 18650 cells are still being deployed by TSLA. The hypothetical Gigafactory 26650 cells aren't out yet. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-backs-teslas-gigafactory-investing-190107913.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-backs-teslas-gigafac... But considering the $1.6 Billion investment from Panasonic, it looks like Panasonic owns at least half of the gigafactory. This suggests that Panasonic still owns the cell technology / chemistry.
- danhak 11y ago18650 refers to the cell form factor--the size and shape--and has nothing to do with the chemistry inside. It's like saying two PC motherboards are the same because they're both ATX. The cells in the original roadster were 3.7 V / 2100 mAh vs. 3.6 V / 3100 mAh for the latest. They're both 18650 cells--completely different chemistry.
- makomk 11y agoMore specifically, Tesla's shipping Panasonic NCR16850A cells with Panasonic's newish LiNiCoO2 chemistry - same as in a lot of more modern laptop batteries. The Roadster was presumably one of their older cells like the CGR18650.