7 ms·

Aren't telemarketers people who are just trying to get their bills paid? Seems like bullying behaviour to be unkind to them. A quick "no thanks" and hang up i

by hoodoof 11y ago

Aren't telemarketers people who are just trying to get their bills paid? Seems like bullying behaviour to be unkind to them. A quick "no thanks" and hang up is enough.

hardwaresofton 11y ago
Someone made a similar comment and was severely down-voted -- be an adult, say no thanks, and hang up the phone. If you're being called extremely consistently at the same inconvenient time, then your case is extraordinary, take some measures to make sure the company doesn't call you again (no call list, whatever else) -- don't take your frustration out on the person who's turn it is to call you. I stated this before, but if you think about it, telemarketers are just sales people who work over the phone. Even when they're being overbearing, no one treats sales people this shitty in person.
- hoodoof 11y ago
  Telemarketers started off with blocked phone numbers, which I don't pick up anymore. Now that they reveal their numbers I immediately block that number on my phone after I hang up the call.
  - dllthomas 11y ago
    I find they call from a new number every time.
- slantyyz 11y ago
  >> no one treats sales people this shitty in person. We have "door knockers" where I live (Ontario, Canada) who present themselves as representatives of gas and energy companies (and some have even gone so far as to say they work for the government) who try and get you to show them your energy bill and/or try to get into your basement to give you a "free inspection" and then get you to sign up for something you don't want. In my experience, saying "no thanks, not interested" (in person) just makes them more aggressive in their claims with the same scripted retorts- i.e. they're there in an official capacity (they're not), all the other neighbors let them sign up (probably not), they have a photo id (that anyone with computer skills can reproduce) and that they're there to save you money (doubtful). They show up in my neighborhood every couple of months, and after a while, you sorta get worn out by the routine and find that being rude/abrupt is the easiest (and sometimes only) way to get rid of them.
  - hardwaresofton 11y ago
    I didn't want to make the point that it was NEVER warranted -- just that it was very rare for it to happen. Obviously, people do get into disagreements that may even turn violent in person. My point is that if someone isn't in your scenario (which I suspect most are not, they're just piling on with the "down with all telemarketers" bandwagon), they should look to other options, before making someone else's life very difficult through technology.
    - pavel_lishin 11y ago
      "very difficult"? I'm not casting a nam-shub on them; I'm just giving them the option of talking on the phone, which is literally what they get paid to do. Like I said in my comment above, it's not cruelty.
      - hardwaresofton 11y ago
        You basically picked up on two words out of the entire comment, then misquoted me (I did not call it cruel)... My point is simple, you're choosing to be rude, and that is fine, completely your choice (especially given what you've stated about what it's like where you live). But that reaction is not necessarily warranted for the person that gets 1 call every few months from a telemarketer.
        pavel_lishin 11y ago
        > (I did not call it cruel)... Sorry, I was quoting myself. And I'd argue that what warrants the reaction is how many calls the telemarketer is making, not how many the receiver is picking up.
        tamana 11y ago
        Bravo, you have done an incredible long troll job, posting in the forum like a telemarketer talks on the phone, pushing BS motte&bailey logic to trick or wear down people.
- dave2000 11y ago
  > If you're being called extremely consistently at the same > inconvenient time, then your case is extraordinary, take > some measures to make sure the company doesn't call you > again (no call list, whatever else) -- don't take your > frustration out on the person who's turn it is to call > you. There is a large group of people for whom there is literally no way of stopping them calling. That's the point you don't seem to understand. You're saying essentially "it's not their fault that they're illegally harassing you having taken steps to hide their identity so you can't report them". It's a moronic argument! You're conflating "being an adult" with "meekly accepting that some people are going to phone you in the evening when you're relaxing with your family and try and bullshit you into giving them money without giving them a piece of your mind". All of the phone calls are inconvenient because they all waste my time; when are they ever not inconvenient? You might just as well describe crack dealers as "businessmen, just after an honest buck".
  - hardwaresofton 11y ago
    You're telling me, that you, as a grown functioning adult, can't think of a solution to the problem of someone calling your phone number illegally repeatedly? Change your number? Threaten to sue? Actually sue? Call the parent company? Call whatever company that is hiring them (whose products they're trying to sell you), and complain? How "large" is this group of people? Are you sure the loud complainers on the internet aren't causing overestimation on your part? If you're not trying to be interrupted, unplug your phone/silence the ringer. Then you definitely won't get interrupted. They may not be inconvenient if they are selling something you actually want. While this is unlikely, it is possible, this is the same rationale for other forms of advertising/marketing. BTW, the same derogatory tone with which you mention "crack dealers", people also used (and still use) for people who sell pot (which is now legal in a few areas). Pot and crack are not the same, but the tone with which you're criticizing people who sell crack cocaine the substance is the same tone that people used while weed was illegal (and still use today).
    - pavel_lishin 11y ago
      > Change your number? Expecting someone to change their number to protect themselves from telemarketers is asinine. > Threaten to sue? Actually sue? Call the parent company? Threaten whom? The telemarketer? Instant hang-up. Their boss? Good luck getting them on the phone. Their actual company? Good luck getting a telemarketer to tell you that information; that's an instant-hang-up. > Call whatever company that is hiring them (whose products they're trying to sell you), and complain? Assuming there's even a legitimate item being sold, that's an interesting idea. The next time I get an offer to get an estimate for having siding put on my residence, I'll take them up on it. I'm afraid, though, that the person who shows up to the apartment complex I'm renting from will just be a local contractor, who's actually completely innocent party who was duped by a "marketing company" into paying money for leads. Then I'll have wasted their time. I'd feel bad about that; not about a telemarketer.
- ashark 11y ago
  > I stated this before, but if you think about it, telemarketers are just sales people who work over the phone. Even when they're being overbearing, no one treats sales people this shitty in person. Sure they do, in similar situations like door-to-door sales. They're pushy, annoying, and coming to you, not the other way around. Often their whole business relies on screwing over old people. Anything that can be done to ensure they bug fewer people in a day is a public service.
  - slantyyz 11y ago
    >> Often their whole business relies on screwing over old people. My retired parents live on the same block as me, and I'm always telling them to never let in or hand over personal information to a "door knocker" (someone hawking energy savings or a free inspection). Those guys definitely take a different tack with older people-- one guy who I turned down moved on to my dad and told him he was from the government, which was an outright lie. Of all the people who knock on my door, the energy salespeople are by far the worst, because they're incredibly aggressive and use shady tactics. There are tons of horror stories about them in Ontario, Canada [1][2][3]. I would love to see an outright ban on door-to-door energy sales here. [1] http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/spending_saving/2012/05/25/door_to_door_energy_sellers_can_mislead_you.html http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/spending_sa... [2] http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2013/11/15/door_knockers_switch_to_furnace_rentals_roseman.html http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2013/11/15/... [3] http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2015/06/16/report-calls-for-ban-on-energy-sales-at-home-roseman.html http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2015/06/16/...
- dllthomas 11y ago
  I find myself called inconsistently at different times (often inconvenient, sometimes not), from different numbers, with the same pitch ("Free install of a home security system!"). I have told them I am ineligible (I don't own a home), that I am uninterested (satisfied with my current security situation), that I believe them to be a scam in the first place, and that I would prefer that they stop calling. I have asked to be removed from their list. I have asked to be put on their "do not call" list. I have submitted the numbers on the FCC web page. I still receive about 1-2 calls a month from them. Their EV from calling me is zero (or negative, if I manage to track them down). If they are really interested in wasting their time, they can do it without wasting mine as well.
- tomjen3 11y ago
  I smell astro-turfing from a telemarketing firm here.
bcook 11y ago
Not taking it personally is healthy for people on both sides of the phone-line. I tend to just hang-up without saying a thing. I highly doubt they take it personally. If they are bothered by it, they are not going to last long as a telemarketer anyway.
- hoodoof 11y ago
  Also the call is often given away by the slight delay and sometimes music whilst their computer hands the outbound call to an operator. There's the signal to hang up.
Blackthorn 11y ago
If I'm on the no-call list already and am getting called, the person on the other end deserves Lenny.
- bcook 11y ago
  Apologies for being overly critical, but I think the boss or the company deserve much more wrath than the poorly-paid telemarketing person you actually talk to.
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    Good luck tracking them down, though. If we want spammy telemarketing to stop, we have to make it unprofitable. The way to make it unprofitable is to ensure it results in less sales. Decreasing call volume decreases sales. Etc. There are legal avenues, but it's incredibly difficult to follow through. Literally every time I've asked who was calling me - the name of the company, anything - I've been hung up on, instantly.
    - bcook 11y ago
      Aren't the people who respond to these calls the real problem? Yes, we can hang-up, but I see no advantage to doing anything beyond that like being mean, yelling, etc.
      - pavel_lishin 11y ago
        The Jolly Roger Telephone Co is not mean, nor does it yell at the telemarketer.
        bcook 11y ago
        Are you referring to yourself as a company?
        pavel_lishin 11y ago
auntienomen 11y ago
The point is that wasting telemarketer's time makes their business economically unviable. There are less antisocial ways of making ends meet.
EC1 11y ago
Yeah, so don't seek jobs at shitty places. Yeah yeah yeah the whole "beggars can't be choosers thing". Unless the telemarketer is literally your only option whatsoever, then I'm sure you have a choice of flipping burgers.
MicroBerto 11y ago
How is this "bullying"? Let's not get carried away with this word. This isn't Tumblr. That out of the way, y'all need to stop giving your phone numbers out to everyone. Google Voice is incredible for a very good reason.
pavel_lishin 11y ago
I believe they still receive an hourly wage. Their bills get as paid as they ever did.
brokentone 11y ago
I'm on the Do Not Call list, so they are actually criminals. They're offering debt services (which I don't need) which I assume are a scam. Any moment I'm wasting of their time is a moment they're not scamming someone else.
- randycupertino 11y ago
  So there's the national do not call list which doesn't work that well, then each company has their own internal Do Not Call list. If you ask the person calling you to add them to their DNC they will and the calls will stop.
  - brokentone 11y ago
    I do both, and oddly they keep coming, and file complaints with the FTC. The national list works well -- violators (if they can be found) are liable to prosecution.
dave2000 11y ago
Yes, but I don't care about them in any way because of the way in which they've chosen to get their bills paid. A quick "no thanks" gets them on the way to harassing the next person. And we don't want that, do we? I don't actually believe you really give a shit about telemarketers pay at all; i've read other people say the same thing as you and it just doesn't sound convincing at all. It's like when people say "well, you have to respect other people's beliefs". No...no, you don't. There's no persuasive argument for that assertion whatsoever. I accept that they hold those beliefs - like I accept the reality that some people can "offer" other members of society nothing other than the ability to make phone calls on other people's behalf. for profit, to people who don't want to receive them but who have no technical or legal way of preventing them - but I'd rather they didn't. There should be an opt-in list you have to sign up to to receive random phone calls at home from people hawking tat and services you don't need, and anyone doing this when you're not on the list should end up with a fine/jail sentence, but until that happens I'm going to waste as much of their time as possible.
username223 11y ago
> A quick "no thanks" and hang up is enough. A quick "sorry, he recently passed away" is just as fast, and probably reduces future telemarketing. On the one hand, the callers are humans with dehumanizing jobs who probably just want to have a non-awful conversation for a few minutes before returning to the auto-dialer to get rejected yet again. On the other hand, they get fired for not making their numbers, and their managers listen in on their calls to make sure they keep pushing the hard sell. On balance, I tend to go for polite, quick refusal. I wouldn't mind chatting for a few minutes, but they would probably get in trouble for that.
- tamana 11y ago
  Nothing wrong with them getting fired -- it opens a job for someone else who was unemployed. The net effect is the same average wages paid into the labor force.
  - username223 11y ago
    Whaaa...? "Nothing wrong with getting you killed -- it opens a partner for someone else who was single. The net effect is the same average amount of coupling." Do you even see individual humans anymore?
mikeash 11y ago
I'm sure scam artists and burglars are just trying to pay the bills too. If you choose to do something so anti-social, then sometimes you'll have trouble.
cabalamat 11y ago
> A quick "no thanks" and hang up is enough. No, because then they get to annoy the next person. The more of their time your waste, the less profitable it becomes, and the fewer telemarketers there will be. Wasting their time is a public service.
saretired 11y ago
Wait, you think these scammers--they are not telemarketers--believe they work for Microsoft or Amex and don't know they are lying? We're supposed to be polite to criminals?

by hoodoof 11y ago

Aren't telemarketers people who are just trying to get their bills paid? Seems like bullying behaviour to be unkind to them. A quick "no thanks" and hang up is enough.

hardwaresofton 11y ago

Someone made a similar comment and was severely down-voted -- be an adult, say no thanks, and hang up the phone. If you're being called extremely consistently at the same inconvenient time, then your case is extraordinary, take some measures to make sure the company doesn't call you again (no call list, whatever else) -- don't take your frustration out on the person who's turn it is to call you. I stated this before, but if you think about it, telemarketers are just sales people who work over the phone. Even when they're being overbearing, no one treats sales people this shitty in person.

hoodoof 11y ago
Telemarketers started off with blocked phone numbers, which I don't pick up anymore. Now that they reveal their numbers I immediately block that number on my phone after I hang up the call.
- dllthomas 11y ago
  I find they call from a new number every time.
slantyyz 11y ago
>> no one treats sales people this shitty in person. We have "door knockers" where I live (Ontario, Canada) who present themselves as representatives of gas and energy companies (and some have even gone so far as to say they work for the government) who try and get you to show them your energy bill and/or try to get into your basement to give you a "free inspection" and then get you to sign up for something you don't want. In my experience, saying "no thanks, not interested" (in person) just makes them more aggressive in their claims with the same scripted retorts- i.e. they're there in an official capacity (they're not), all the other neighbors let them sign up (probably not), they have a photo id (that anyone with computer skills can reproduce) and that they're there to save you money (doubtful). They show up in my neighborhood every couple of months, and after a while, you sorta get worn out by the routine and find that being rude/abrupt is the easiest (and sometimes only) way to get rid of them.
- hardwaresofton 11y ago
  I didn't want to make the point that it was NEVER warranted -- just that it was very rare for it to happen. Obviously, people do get into disagreements that may even turn violent in person. My point is that if someone isn't in your scenario (which I suspect most are not, they're just piling on with the "down with all telemarketers" bandwagon), they should look to other options, before making someone else's life very difficult through technology.
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    "very difficult"? I'm not casting a nam-shub on them; I'm just giving them the option of talking on the phone, which is literally what they get paid to do. Like I said in my comment above, it's not cruelty.
    - hardwaresofton 11y ago
      You basically picked up on two words out of the entire comment, then misquoted me (I did not call it cruel)... My point is simple, you're choosing to be rude, and that is fine, completely your choice (especially given what you've stated about what it's like where you live). But that reaction is not necessarily warranted for the person that gets 1 call every few months from a telemarketer.
      - pavel_lishin 11y ago
        > (I did not call it cruel)... Sorry, I was quoting myself. And I'd argue that what warrants the reaction is how many calls the telemarketer is making, not how many the receiver is picking up.
      - tamana 11y ago
        Bravo, you have done an incredible long troll job, posting in the forum like a telemarketer talks on the phone, pushing BS motte&bailey logic to trick or wear down people.
dave2000 11y ago
> If you're being called extremely consistently at the same > inconvenient time, then your case is extraordinary, take > some measures to make sure the company doesn't call you > again (no call list, whatever else) -- don't take your > frustration out on the person who's turn it is to call > you. There is a large group of people for whom there is literally no way of stopping them calling. That's the point you don't seem to understand. You're saying essentially "it's not their fault that they're illegally harassing you having taken steps to hide their identity so you can't report them". It's a moronic argument! You're conflating "being an adult" with "meekly accepting that some people are going to phone you in the evening when you're relaxing with your family and try and bullshit you into giving them money without giving them a piece of your mind". All of the phone calls are inconvenient because they all waste my time; when are they ever not inconvenient? You might just as well describe crack dealers as "businessmen, just after an honest buck".
- hardwaresofton 11y ago
  You're telling me, that you, as a grown functioning adult, can't think of a solution to the problem of someone calling your phone number illegally repeatedly? Change your number? Threaten to sue? Actually sue? Call the parent company? Call whatever company that is hiring them (whose products they're trying to sell you), and complain? How "large" is this group of people? Are you sure the loud complainers on the internet aren't causing overestimation on your part? If you're not trying to be interrupted, unplug your phone/silence the ringer. Then you definitely won't get interrupted. They may not be inconvenient if they are selling something you actually want. While this is unlikely, it is possible, this is the same rationale for other forms of advertising/marketing. BTW, the same derogatory tone with which you mention "crack dealers", people also used (and still use) for people who sell pot (which is now legal in a few areas). Pot and crack are not the same, but the tone with which you're criticizing people who sell crack cocaine the substance is the same tone that people used while weed was illegal (and still use today).
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    > Change your number? Expecting someone to change their number to protect themselves from telemarketers is asinine. > Threaten to sue? Actually sue? Call the parent company? Threaten whom? The telemarketer? Instant hang-up. Their boss? Good luck getting them on the phone. Their actual company? Good luck getting a telemarketer to tell you that information; that's an instant-hang-up. > Call whatever company that is hiring them (whose products they're trying to sell you), and complain? Assuming there's even a legitimate item being sold, that's an interesting idea. The next time I get an offer to get an estimate for having siding put on my residence, I'll take them up on it. I'm afraid, though, that the person who shows up to the apartment complex I'm renting from will just be a local contractor, who's actually completely innocent party who was duped by a "marketing company" into paying money for leads. Then I'll have wasted their time. I'd feel bad about that; not about a telemarketer.
ashark 11y ago
> I stated this before, but if you think about it, telemarketers are just sales people who work over the phone. Even when they're being overbearing, no one treats sales people this shitty in person. Sure they do, in similar situations like door-to-door sales. They're pushy, annoying, and coming to you, not the other way around. Often their whole business relies on screwing over old people. Anything that can be done to ensure they bug fewer people in a day is a public service.
- slantyyz 11y ago
  >> Often their whole business relies on screwing over old people. My retired parents live on the same block as me, and I'm always telling them to never let in or hand over personal information to a "door knocker" (someone hawking energy savings or a free inspection). Those guys definitely take a different tack with older people-- one guy who I turned down moved on to my dad and told him he was from the government, which was an outright lie. Of all the people who knock on my door, the energy salespeople are by far the worst, because they're incredibly aggressive and use shady tactics. There are tons of horror stories about them in Ontario, Canada [1][2][3]. I would love to see an outright ban on door-to-door energy sales here. [1] http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/spending_saving/2012/05/25/door_to_door_energy_sellers_can_mislead_you.html http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/spending_sa... [2] http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2013/11/15/door_knockers_switch_to_furnace_rentals_roseman.html http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2013/11/15/... [3] http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2015/06/16/report-calls-for-ban-on-energy-sales-at-home-roseman.html http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2015/06/16/...
dllthomas 11y ago
I find myself called inconsistently at different times (often inconvenient, sometimes not), from different numbers, with the same pitch ("Free install of a home security system!"). I have told them I am ineligible (I don't own a home), that I am uninterested (satisfied with my current security situation), that I believe them to be a scam in the first place, and that I would prefer that they stop calling. I have asked to be removed from their list. I have asked to be put on their "do not call" list. I have submitted the numbers on the FCC web page. I still receive about 1-2 calls a month from them. Their EV from calling me is zero (or negative, if I manage to track them down). If they are really interested in wasting their time, they can do it without wasting mine as well.
tomjen3 11y ago
I smell astro-turfing from a telemarketing firm here.

bcook 11y ago

Not taking it personally is healthy for people on both sides of the phone-line. I tend to just hang-up without saying a thing. I highly doubt they take it personally. If they are bothered by it, they are not going to last long as a telemarketer anyway.

hoodoof 11y ago
Also the call is often given away by the slight delay and sometimes music whilst their computer hands the outbound call to an operator. There's the signal to hang up.

Blackthorn 11y ago

If I'm on the no-call list already and am getting called, the person on the other end deserves Lenny.

bcook 11y ago
Apologies for being overly critical, but I think the boss or the company deserve much more wrath than the poorly-paid telemarketing person you actually talk to.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  Good luck tracking them down, though. If we want spammy telemarketing to stop, we have to make it unprofitable. The way to make it unprofitable is to ensure it results in less sales. Decreasing call volume decreases sales. Etc. There are legal avenues, but it's incredibly difficult to follow through. Literally every time I've asked who was calling me - the name of the company, anything - I've been hung up on, instantly.
  - bcook 11y ago
    Aren't the people who respond to these calls the real problem? Yes, we can hang-up, but I see no advantage to doing anything beyond that like being mean, yelling, etc.
    - pavel_lishin 11y ago
      The Jolly Roger Telephone Co is not mean, nor does it yell at the telemarketer.
      - bcook 11y ago
        Are you referring to yourself as a company?
        pavel_lishin 11y ago

auntienomen 11y ago

The point is that wasting telemarketer's time makes their business economically unviable. There are less antisocial ways of making ends meet.

EC1 11y ago

Yeah, so don't seek jobs at shitty places. Yeah yeah yeah the whole "beggars can't be choosers thing". Unless the telemarketer is literally your only option whatsoever, then I'm sure you have a choice of flipping burgers.

MicroBerto 11y ago

How is this "bullying"? Let's not get carried away with this word. This isn't Tumblr. That out of the way, y'all need to stop giving your phone numbers out to everyone. Google Voice is incredible for a very good reason.

pavel_lishin 11y ago

I believe they still receive an hourly wage. Their bills get as paid as they ever did.

brokentone 11y ago

I'm on the Do Not Call list, so they are actually criminals. They're offering debt services (which I don't need) which I assume are a scam. Any moment I'm wasting of their time is a moment they're not scamming someone else.

randycupertino 11y ago
So there's the national do not call list which doesn't work that well, then each company has their own internal Do Not Call list. If you ask the person calling you to add them to their DNC they will and the calls will stop.
- brokentone 11y ago
  I do both, and oddly they keep coming, and file complaints with the FTC. The national list works well -- violators (if they can be found) are liable to prosecution.

dave2000 11y ago

Yes, but I don't care about them in any way because of the way in which they've chosen to get their bills paid. A quick "no thanks" gets them on the way to harassing the next person. And we don't want that, do we? I don't actually believe you really give a shit about telemarketers pay at all; i've read other people say the same thing as you and it just doesn't sound convincing at all. It's like when people say "well, you have to respect other people's beliefs". No...no, you don't. There's no persuasive argument for that assertion whatsoever. I accept that they hold those beliefs - like I accept the reality that some people can "offer" other members of society nothing other than the ability to make phone calls on other people's behalf. for profit, to people who don't want to receive them but who have no technical or legal way of preventing them - but I'd rather they didn't. There should be an opt-in list you have to sign up to to receive random phone calls at home from people hawking tat and services you don't need, and anyone doing this when you're not on the list should end up with a fine/jail sentence, but until that happens I'm going to waste as much of their time as possible.

username223 11y ago

> A quick "no thanks" and hang up is enough. A quick "sorry, he recently passed away" is just as fast, and probably reduces future telemarketing. On the one hand, the callers are humans with dehumanizing jobs who probably just want to have a non-awful conversation for a few minutes before returning to the auto-dialer to get rejected yet again. On the other hand, they get fired for not making their numbers, and their managers listen in on their calls to make sure they keep pushing the hard sell. On balance, I tend to go for polite, quick refusal. I wouldn't mind chatting for a few minutes, but they would probably get in trouble for that.

tamana 11y ago
Nothing wrong with them getting fired -- it opens a job for someone else who was unemployed. The net effect is the same average wages paid into the labor force.
- username223 11y ago
  Whaaa...? "Nothing wrong with getting you killed -- it opens a partner for someone else who was single. The net effect is the same average amount of coupling." Do you even see individual humans anymore?

mikeash 11y ago

I'm sure scam artists and burglars are just trying to pay the bills too. If you choose to do something so anti-social, then sometimes you'll have trouble.

cabalamat 11y ago

> A quick "no thanks" and hang up is enough. No, because then they get to annoy the next person. The more of their time your waste, the less profitable it becomes, and the fewer telemarketers there will be. Wasting their time is a public service.

saretired 11y ago

Wait, you think these scammers--they are not telemarketers--believe they work for Microsoft or Amex and don't know they are lying? We're supposed to be polite to criminals?