8 ms·

My standard response is "What is the pay range? Who is the client?" to the recruiter emails. The recruiters that get back to you generally mean business. Becaus

by srpeck 11y ago

My standard response is "What is the pay range? Who is the client?" to the recruiter emails. The recruiters that get back to you generally mean business. Because of this, I have a huge amount of data on contract rates now. Also, a good side effect is that at least someone is telling them their rates are too low. Hope it helps another consultant down the line...

kzhahou 11y ago
You should share that data, help your fellow job hunters. Last time I worked at a BigTechCo, salary ranges were $85-100K for juniors, 120-130 mid-level, and 150-165 for senior devs. Bonuses tend to hover around 30%. Of course, stock grants varied widely. The largest IC pay I saw was $2M/year for a someone who years ago was part of a famous project -- semi-known guy. More recently, I've seen (indirectly) BigTechCo's offering $300-350/year total comp to mid-levels, and 5-600K to seniors. Anyone else wanna share?
- merpnderp 11y ago
  300-350 for mid level developers and up to 600 for seniors? Where is this?
  - kzhahou 11y ago
    Big tech companies in silicon valley.
    - conanbatt 11y ago
      I want to believe the numbers you provide are right, but then I look at https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Facebook-Salaries-E40772.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Facebook-Salaries-E40772.ht... and cant see where to get more reliable sources for thinking facebook or google pay that.
      - kzhahou 11y ago
        Those salaries on Glassdoor pretty much match what I'm saying, with salaries running up to $165 for senior devs. Add 30% for bonus and $100-150K in stock and you're into the $300K+ range I'm describing. The $600K+ figure is for director level and above. The $2M/year individual contributor was an outlier.
        bhousel 11y ago
        $150k salary + $150k stock does not equal $300k salary. Not even in SV. And that 30% bonus sounds like made up nonsense.
        kzhahou 11y ago
        Why the hostility? I'm not making any of this up. That bonus is typical of multiple places I've been, usually comprising 15% individual performance bonus and 15% company performance. And of course 150 sal != 300 sal. 300+ is total comp, as I already said.
        hueving 11y ago
        Software Engineer 5 at Facebook is total comp $268k on glassdoor. Your estimates are way too high.
        majormajor 11y ago
        If I look at the Glassdoor salaries for places I've worked the numbers (total comp especially, but also base salary) are sometimes quite low. They get less accurate the higher up you go (where you also have less data points), I think mainly it's a combination of sparse data + older data points being way out of whack with recent increases due to the competitive market. I've personally seen numbers at several places that some people on HN vehemently tell me I shouldn't believe... and sometimes, even Glassdoor seems to give numbers that a lot of commenters here don't always seem to believe (like that $268k number).
        11y ago
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- BuckRogers 11y ago
  >Anyone else wanna share? Yes please do (everyone). The reason is to drive wages up. Hiding this knowledge doesn't protect YOU, it raises the bar for your next job. They're going to outsource and insource you anyway so that's nothing to fear. Looking for an entry level Django gig and have always wondered what it should be (of course market matters). Generally stated, finding -any- developer under 85K is a bargain IMO and you pretty much confirmed that. I know many make less than 85 (like me), but I've had it with being taken advantage of as well. Only have so many healthy years to provide, next job is going to be the right deal to take care of my family.
  - epa 11y ago
    Why wait for the next job? If both you and your employer understand your wage is under market value, your work is good, and you are reliable, why are you hesitating bringing up your current pay? Give them a number that works for you.
    - BuckRogers 11y ago
      *edit- wow that ended up a lot longer than intended. Interesting point and totally valid. I agree with your sentiment, though sitting back, it reads idealistic to me. Easier stated than done. But I did exactly that last year. My manager and his, our director responded well to it. I was prepared to walk if they feigned offense/anger (had that happen once years ago at another place). I got a decent raise, 10%. I don't expect any existing job to go much further than that TBH. Usually asking for 10% or more will earn you a good laugh.. your initial salary usually sets the pace till you leave. I felt that was them being generous as a very large corporation such as mine goes. It was out of bounds, did not affect this year's standard raise and so forth. I've made them a lot of money, hundreds of thousands a year in direct billables for 5 years now, I think I peaked there in 2013 at $400,000 for the company. At my rate, $220 that's almost billing all day everyday for the year. Of course, I have a support system but you still have to bill the time and do the work. Plus the intangible benefits of my employment there and have been getting "exceeds expectations" for the last couple of years. I don't think there's a time that I didn't come through, and I never say/said "I don't know" to things (which drives me nuts to hear from people as I'm a stubborn researcher). I mentioned all of this, had hard numbers ready and so forth when asking for the raise. I didn't hesitate to ask for it when the time was right. 4 years of pretty clutch contributions (if I must say so myself) and a large, critical project coming up that only I could accomplish for them (they foolishly let everyone else go with knowledge of the product). But you can't keep going back time and time again asking for bigger raises, and that 10% was determined by HR doing their market research. I didn't get to give any input. To put me where I should be would've been a 20K raise. I knew that was a pretty tough task though- that's a switching jobs raise. So at this point, I pretty much have to drop the salary point and continue working. I don't think it's right to keep asking for more without a role change, promotion or significant time passing, it kind of shows they never should've played ball the first time IMO. If I want a big raise again, I'll just have to move on one day. I wouldn't mind switching stacks anyway to something Python. I'm also able to work from home, so I'm looking for the best place to put down some roots and start looking for that role. Austin, Vancouver, WA (Portland) or Chicago. So that freedom has a lot of value. I'm only hesitant to do that because most of my career has been abusive, long unpaid overtime and I've been fairly easy to exploit because I was your typical virtuous midwesterner who has been turned fairly cynical when I found said values like "work hard, get the money" weren't really true. I have a strong sense of justice, so when I feel wronged I get fired up. My belief was that if I came through on every job and project, I'd be recognized and taken care of. It's not true, you're just the dummy who works his ass off sacrificing your health in the process. When you're burned, they dump you for a new model. No one cares about you. You just need to shut the laptop down at 5:30PM and walk out the door. Damn what everyone else does or thinks, as unpaid overtime is the root of all evil. The last couple of years it's been the first time I've received humane treatment and spooked to start over somewhere else. :) Like I said, it's a very large corporation and I highly dislike the lack of passionate employees for the tech. It's a technical graveyard. But there's not much drama and nonsense going on, which I appreciate. So many offices are full of clowns and egos and I'm glad to be out of that. Not to mention, after 5 years everyone knows me, and I know I'm not perfect either. It's a balance, money isn't everything but getting as much as possible without being made miserable is the goal. I almost got so burned up that I didn't want anything to do with tech-anything, and I'm really glad I didn't quite reach that threshold. Some point I'll seek out that new role for the bigger raise, and get out of the tech graveyard. I'm bored, capable of more and I need to do it for my wife and kids we're aiming to have.

by srpeck 11y ago

kzhahou 11y ago

You should share that data, help your fellow job hunters. Last time I worked at a BigTechCo, salary ranges were $85-100K for juniors, 120-130 mid-level, and 150-165 for senior devs. Bonuses tend to hover around 30%. Of course, stock grants varied widely. The largest IC pay I saw was $2M/year for a someone who years ago was part of a famous project -- semi-known guy. More recently, I've seen (indirectly) BigTechCo's offering $300-350/year total comp to mid-levels, and 5-600K to seniors. Anyone else wanna share?

merpnderp 11y ago
300-350 for mid level developers and up to 600 for seniors? Where is this?
- kzhahou 11y ago
  Big tech companies in silicon valley.
  - conanbatt 11y ago
    I want to believe the numbers you provide are right, but then I look at https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Facebook-Salaries-E40772.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Facebook-Salaries-E40772.ht... and cant see where to get more reliable sources for thinking facebook or google pay that.
    - kzhahou 11y ago
      Those salaries on Glassdoor pretty much match what I'm saying, with salaries running up to $165 for senior devs. Add 30% for bonus and $100-150K in stock and you're into the $300K+ range I'm describing. The $600K+ figure is for director level and above. The $2M/year individual contributor was an outlier.
      - bhousel 11y ago
        $150k salary + $150k stock does not equal $300k salary. Not even in SV. And that 30% bonus sounds like made up nonsense.
        kzhahou 11y ago
        Why the hostility? I'm not making any of this up. That bonus is typical of multiple places I've been, usually comprising 15% individual performance bonus and 15% company performance. And of course 150 sal != 300 sal. 300+ is total comp, as I already said.
        hueving 11y ago
        Software Engineer 5 at Facebook is total comp $268k on glassdoor. Your estimates are way too high.
        majormajor 11y ago
        If I look at the Glassdoor salaries for places I've worked the numbers (total comp especially, but also base salary) are sometimes quite low. They get less accurate the higher up you go (where you also have less data points), I think mainly it's a combination of sparse data + older data points being way out of whack with recent increases due to the competitive market. I've personally seen numbers at several places that some people on HN vehemently tell me I shouldn't believe... and sometimes, even Glassdoor seems to give numbers that a lot of commenters here don't always seem to believe (like that $268k number).
        11y ago
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
BuckRogers 11y ago
>Anyone else wanna share? Yes please do (everyone). The reason is to drive wages up. Hiding this knowledge doesn't protect YOU, it raises the bar for your next job. They're going to outsource and insource you anyway so that's nothing to fear. Looking for an entry level Django gig and have always wondered what it should be (of course market matters). Generally stated, finding -any- developer under 85K is a bargain IMO and you pretty much confirmed that. I know many make less than 85 (like me), but I've had it with being taken advantage of as well. Only have so many healthy years to provide, next job is going to be the right deal to take care of my family.
- epa 11y ago
  Why wait for the next job? If both you and your employer understand your wage is under market value, your work is good, and you are reliable, why are you hesitating bringing up your current pay? Give them a number that works for you.
  - BuckRogers 11y ago
    *edit- wow that ended up a lot longer than intended. Interesting point and totally valid. I agree with your sentiment, though sitting back, it reads idealistic to me. Easier stated than done. But I did exactly that last year. My manager and his, our director responded well to it. I was prepared to walk if they feigned offense/anger (had that happen once years ago at another place). I got a decent raise, 10%. I don't expect any existing job to go much further than that TBH. Usually asking for 10% or more will earn you a good laugh.. your initial salary usually sets the pace till you leave. I felt that was them being generous as a very large corporation such as mine goes. It was out of bounds, did not affect this year's standard raise and so forth. I've made them a lot of money, hundreds of thousands a year in direct billables for 5 years now, I think I peaked there in 2013 at $400,000 for the company. At my rate, $220 that's almost billing all day everyday for the year. Of course, I have a support system but you still have to bill the time and do the work. Plus the intangible benefits of my employment there and have been getting "exceeds expectations" for the last couple of years. I don't think there's a time that I didn't come through, and I never say/said "I don't know" to things (which drives me nuts to hear from people as I'm a stubborn researcher). I mentioned all of this, had hard numbers ready and so forth when asking for the raise. I didn't hesitate to ask for it when the time was right. 4 years of pretty clutch contributions (if I must say so myself) and a large, critical project coming up that only I could accomplish for them (they foolishly let everyone else go with knowledge of the product). But you can't keep going back time and time again asking for bigger raises, and that 10% was determined by HR doing their market research. I didn't get to give any input. To put me where I should be would've been a 20K raise. I knew that was a pretty tough task though- that's a switching jobs raise. So at this point, I pretty much have to drop the salary point and continue working. I don't think it's right to keep asking for more without a role change, promotion or significant time passing, it kind of shows they never should've played ball the first time IMO. If I want a big raise again, I'll just have to move on one day. I wouldn't mind switching stacks anyway to something Python. I'm also able to work from home, so I'm looking for the best place to put down some roots and start looking for that role. Austin, Vancouver, WA (Portland) or Chicago. So that freedom has a lot of value. I'm only hesitant to do that because most of my career has been abusive, long unpaid overtime and I've been fairly easy to exploit because I was your typical virtuous midwesterner who has been turned fairly cynical when I found said values like "work hard, get the money" weren't really true. I have a strong sense of justice, so when I feel wronged I get fired up. My belief was that if I came through on every job and project, I'd be recognized and taken care of. It's not true, you're just the dummy who works his ass off sacrificing your health in the process. When you're burned, they dump you for a new model. No one cares about you. You just need to shut the laptop down at 5:30PM and walk out the door. Damn what everyone else does or thinks, as unpaid overtime is the root of all evil. The last couple of years it's been the first time I've received humane treatment and spooked to start over somewhere else. :) Like I said, it's a very large corporation and I highly dislike the lack of passionate employees for the tech. It's a technical graveyard. But there's not much drama and nonsense going on, which I appreciate. So many offices are full of clowns and egos and I'm glad to be out of that. Not to mention, after 5 years everyone knows me, and I know I'm not perfect either. It's a balance, money isn't everything but getting as much as possible without being made miserable is the goal. I almost got so burned up that I didn't want anything to do with tech-anything, and I'm really glad I didn't quite reach that threshold. Some point I'll seek out that new role for the bigger raise, and get out of the tech graveyard. I'm bored, capable of more and I need to do it for my wife and kids we're aiming to have.