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Lots of angry sentiment towards this company here. I understand it doesn't necessarily bring this demographic as much value since most here are probably happily

by jameslk 11y ago

Lots of angry sentiment towards this company here. I understand it doesn't necessarily bring this demographic as much value since most here are probably happily employed and don't need it. There's plenty of others who count on a service like LinkedIn, which doesn't have a good comparison (e.g. Twitter to Facebook). Personally, I've found value in it from the potential clients I've received (I'm a contractor) and the ability to look up just about anyone I may need to do business with. I use it professionally to get an overview of others like I use Wikipedia to get an overview of a topic. I do know they have room to improve. I've been using the service since 2006 and have seen all manner of their silly practices. But as a well-known, professional network with a large userbase, I have yet to find a rivaling alternative.

Angostura 11y ago
The angry sentiment isn't because people don't see potential value. It's because they do see the value - and how the company keeps spoiling what could be a good user experience.
- samstave 11y ago
  I agree with this. I have received a ton of value from linkedin, but the UX - particularly on mobile (including their crappy apps) is frustrating.
- gohrt 11y ago
  Would the situation have turned out differently if users gave LinkedIn money in recognition of the referrals LinkedIn facilitated? People like to hate linkedIn for being exploitative, while happily advancing their careers/businesses without paying LinkedIn for building the network infrastructure.
- jameslk 11y ago
  My speculation is that without any comparable competitors, there's nothing to force LinkedIn to change the negative aspects of their service. If there were two competing services, we would see users gravitating towards the service they prefer and the other service desperately trying to correct itself. For example, when Yahoo introduced suggested searches, Google noticed and picked up the feature too. Alternatively, when IE6 was king, they let it stagnate and look at what happened. So from that standpoint, I hope that LinkedIn doesn't fail, but rather a competing service nurtures an environment where LinkedIn has to compete. Then hopefully we can see improvements towards what users really want.
  - enraged_camel 11y ago
    The reason a LinkedIn competitor hasn't emerged is the same reason a viable Facebook competitor hasn't emerged: at this point the network effects are too strong, and it's extremely difficult to beat incumbents because of that. Besides, think about how much flak some HN submissions get for being "just another social network." I think the whole social network market has fully saturated and there will be additional difficulty in convincing people there is room for more social networks (aside from certain niche differentiators such as centralized vs distributed, which 99% of users don't care about).
    - srunni 11y ago
      > The reason a LinkedIn competitor hasn't emerged is the same reason a viable Facebook competitor hasn't emerged: at this point the network effects are too strong, and it's extremely difficult to beat incumbents because of that. I'd say LinkedIn actually has stronger network effects than Facebook, or other consumer social networks. Consumer social networks are used more casually, so it's easier to get users to sign up than it would be for a professional social network, where users tend to adopt a more conservative mindset. And we've seen several consumer social networks rise in the post-Facebook era - Snapchat, WhatsApp, and Instagram.
      - karmelapple 11y ago
        The only social network I can reliably guess that someone is on, regardless of job type, is, alas, LinkedIn. My friend who is a biologist doesn't have a Twitter since nobody in her field uses it, but she has a LinkedIn. My software developer friends have Twitter, so that's my go-to... but then it's a mishmash of business and personal. Or sometimes only personal, so it feels weird to talk business over it. So then... email, since soft devs - rightfully so - dislike LinkedIn. I don't know the solution, but it's clear one should be built. Does LinkedIn have an easy "export my social graph" option to at least jump start w competitor?
        srunni 11y ago
- danso 11y ago
  You said exactly what I had surmised. I don't use LinkedIn, and don't even really get spammed by it...but it's the one service that I don't use that I completely believe has a viable and valuable product. That it is facing such uncertainty is just baffling to me.
zepto 11y ago
This is Stockholm syndrome writ large.
kin 11y ago
Same. LinkedIn has helped me find 2 fantastic jobs now (and leads to many other potential ones). Granted, it was through one recruiter of the many that spammed my inbox. But still, that clutter stays on LinkedIn and I only deal with it when I need it. In another use case I've also used LinkedIn to find service providers. Instead of relying on word of mouth I can vet someone from their work history, endorsements, and recommendations. So yeah, they have bad practices, but they're not all bad. I do have to say that what they do provide of value is easily replicable and this is probably a great opportunity for anyone who wants to start something.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Zigurd 11y ago
The potential usefulness of LinkedIn only adds to the disappointment and resentment. It is sometimes useful. It could be good. Why does it have to be so intrusive and underhanded that I won't let the app on my phone?
GFischer 11y ago
It does have a lot of value. My partner found some awesome contractors by doing searches on LinkedIn for the relevant keywords (it helped that they were unknown technologies with less than a dozen profiles listing them)
sundarurfriend 11y ago
I too (as a freelancer) find quite a bit of value out of LinkedIn, but that's orthogonal to the fact that they are a scummy company with even lower ethical standards than Facebook. That they don't have a rivaling alternative to provide competition only adds to the tragedy.
- Disruptive_Dave 11y ago
  You try their ProFinder yet? I've been messing with it a bit, still too early to make a call on it.
no_wave 11y ago
LinkedIn lucked out and rode the network effect to its current size. Note that the only thing you like about it is its network effect, which is more a question of timing than open competition at this point. If other websites like Facebook, Yelp, Google, etc. dumped so much crap on the user while offering so little the internet would be almost unusable. LinkedIn should rot, I'd love to see it, because then everyone would migrate to a better alternative.
krelian 11y ago
>but as a well-known, professional network with a large userbase, I have yet to find a rivaling alternative. That's their only advantage, that they are big and almost everyone is already there but it always feels to me like they are some sort of myspace waiting for their a Facebook to come and do it right.

by jameslk 11y ago

Angostura 11y ago

The angry sentiment isn't because people don't see potential value. It's because they do see the value - and how the company keeps spoiling what could be a good user experience.

samstave 11y ago
I agree with this. I have received a ton of value from linkedin, but the UX - particularly on mobile (including their crappy apps) is frustrating.
gohrt 11y ago
Would the situation have turned out differently if users gave LinkedIn money in recognition of the referrals LinkedIn facilitated? People like to hate linkedIn for being exploitative, while happily advancing their careers/businesses without paying LinkedIn for building the network infrastructure.
jameslk 11y ago
My speculation is that without any comparable competitors, there's nothing to force LinkedIn to change the negative aspects of their service. If there were two competing services, we would see users gravitating towards the service they prefer and the other service desperately trying to correct itself. For example, when Yahoo introduced suggested searches, Google noticed and picked up the feature too. Alternatively, when IE6 was king, they let it stagnate and look at what happened. So from that standpoint, I hope that LinkedIn doesn't fail, but rather a competing service nurtures an environment where LinkedIn has to compete. Then hopefully we can see improvements towards what users really want.
- enraged_camel 11y ago
  The reason a LinkedIn competitor hasn't emerged is the same reason a viable Facebook competitor hasn't emerged: at this point the network effects are too strong, and it's extremely difficult to beat incumbents because of that. Besides, think about how much flak some HN submissions get for being "just another social network." I think the whole social network market has fully saturated and there will be additional difficulty in convincing people there is room for more social networks (aside from certain niche differentiators such as centralized vs distributed, which 99% of users don't care about).
  - srunni 11y ago
    > The reason a LinkedIn competitor hasn't emerged is the same reason a viable Facebook competitor hasn't emerged: at this point the network effects are too strong, and it's extremely difficult to beat incumbents because of that. I'd say LinkedIn actually has stronger network effects than Facebook, or other consumer social networks. Consumer social networks are used more casually, so it's easier to get users to sign up than it would be for a professional social network, where users tend to adopt a more conservative mindset. And we've seen several consumer social networks rise in the post-Facebook era - Snapchat, WhatsApp, and Instagram.
    - karmelapple 11y ago
      The only social network I can reliably guess that someone is on, regardless of job type, is, alas, LinkedIn. My friend who is a biologist doesn't have a Twitter since nobody in her field uses it, but she has a LinkedIn. My software developer friends have Twitter, so that's my go-to... but then it's a mishmash of business and personal. Or sometimes only personal, so it feels weird to talk business over it. So then... email, since soft devs - rightfully so - dislike LinkedIn. I don't know the solution, but it's clear one should be built. Does LinkedIn have an easy "export my social graph" option to at least jump start w competitor?
      - srunni 11y ago
danso 11y ago
You said exactly what I had surmised. I don't use LinkedIn, and don't even really get spammed by it...but it's the one service that I don't use that I completely believe has a viable and valuable product. That it is facing such uncertainty is just baffling to me.

zepto 11y ago

This is Stockholm syndrome writ large.

kin 11y ago

Same. LinkedIn has helped me find 2 fantastic jobs now (and leads to many other potential ones). Granted, it was through one recruiter of the many that spammed my inbox. But still, that clutter stays on LinkedIn and I only deal with it when I need it. In another use case I've also used LinkedIn to find service providers. Instead of relying on word of mouth I can vet someone from their work history, endorsements, and recommendations. So yeah, they have bad practices, but they're not all bad. I do have to say that what they do provide of value is easily replicable and this is probably a great opportunity for anyone who wants to start something.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

Zigurd 11y ago

The potential usefulness of LinkedIn only adds to the disappointment and resentment. It is sometimes useful. It could be good. Why does it have to be so intrusive and underhanded that I won't let the app on my phone?

GFischer 11y ago

It does have a lot of value. My partner found some awesome contractors by doing searches on LinkedIn for the relevant keywords (it helped that they were unknown technologies with less than a dozen profiles listing them)

sundarurfriend 11y ago

I too (as a freelancer) find quite a bit of value out of LinkedIn, but that's orthogonal to the fact that they are a scummy company with even lower ethical standards than Facebook. That they don't have a rivaling alternative to provide competition only adds to the tragedy.

Disruptive_Dave 11y ago
You try their ProFinder yet? I've been messing with it a bit, still too early to make a call on it.

no_wave 11y ago

LinkedIn lucked out and rode the network effect to its current size. Note that the only thing you like about it is its network effect, which is more a question of timing than open competition at this point. If other websites like Facebook, Yelp, Google, etc. dumped so much crap on the user while offering so little the internet would be almost unusable. LinkedIn should rot, I'd love to see it, because then everyone would migrate to a better alternative.

krelian 11y ago

>but as a well-known, professional network with a large userbase, I have yet to find a rivaling alternative. That's their only advantage, that they are big and almost everyone is already there but it always feels to me like they are some sort of myspace waiting for their a Facebook to come and do it right.