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The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter. It firmly pigeonholes your next salary to your current one, inste

The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter. It firmly pigeonholes your next salary to your current one, instead of the value you bring to a company. Patrick MacKenzie's article on salary negotiations is excellent (I would maybe even say "required") reading on the subject.

TomSawyer 11y ago
This one? http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
- cushychicken 11y ago
  That's the one. Probably Patrick's best piece of advice, in terms of broad application.
  - Terretta 11y ago
    Content is great. Anti-iDevice editor note is odd: > [Editor’s note: At nearly 7,000 words, you probably don’t want to try reading this on an iDevice. Bookmark it and come back later.] My iDevice is a 13" 5.6K screen that I hold in my hands like a magazine. Surely better suited to long form reading than a lower res rMBP I generally read at a desk or table. iPad had Retina display since iPad 3rd Gen released in 2012 when this was written.
ryguytilidie 11y ago
Recruiter here. I think: "The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter." is pretty simplistic and naive. You simply have to figure out how to get what you want. If you want 180 and currently make 140 and a recruiter asks what you make, just say something like "my expectation for my next role is around 180". You say that and you both probably get what you want and save a lot of back and forth.
- skewart 11y ago
  Exactly. There is never a reason to tell anyone your current salary, just what you're looking for now.
- gedy 11y ago
  Thanks for the insight. Though most of your peers I've dealt with only frame it as "what's your current salary" not expectations.
- pc86 11y ago
  Not a recruiter but I've gotten all but my current job through recruiters. I think the quoted moral still applies - you obviously have to disclose what you want to earn if you expect to actually earn that. However, what I made at my last job had zero bearing on my expected salary at my current job. If a recruiter is just trying to find out what I want, they can ask. However, I think more often than not they're getting paid on the spread and if they can place me in a job with a cap of $180 for $150, they'll do so and pocket whatever their percentage of the spread is.[0] [0] I know this isn't how all recruiters are paid, but many are.
  - ryguytilidie 11y ago
    While I'm mostly an internal recruiting manager, I've signed a lot of these deals and have a lot of recruiter friends and know their general contract structure. I do not know of anyone and have never seen a recruiter compensation package where they were paid on spread. That just seems like an incentive to hire someone other than the best person for the job. Seems really strange to me.
    - pc86 11y ago
      As recently as 2010 Aerotek paid their recruiters exclusively on a percentage of spread.
- pmiller2 11y ago
  Exactly! I wish more recruiters thought like this. There's absolutely no point for either the recruiter or the candidate to go through an interview process only to get an offer that won't be accepted. For instance, I'm working at a great place right now, and it would take a significant bump in salary to get me to even consider moving.
gedy 11y ago
I've tried that (nicely), but it backfires too. Some companies are either old school or clueless on what to offer and have treated me pretty badly and called off interviewing further well into interviewing due not telling them that. E.g. "We've NEVER had someone be so stubborn about sharing their salary". I realize those places were likely toxic, but it can be never-wracking to someone who needs a job.
- jrs235 11y ago
  "We've NEVER had someone be so stubborn about sharing their salary". If I heard that and felt I was going to walk away anyway, I'd be tempted to throw back "How much do you make?" And watch to see if they squirm to not share. If they came back with "what I make has nothing to do with this position you're being interviewed for" come back with "then neither does my previous salaries, if they do then I need to know how much other folks in other positions in this company make so I can gauge whether I think this company will still be here in the future."
  - cushychicken 11y ago
    The techniques in Patrick's post are a less abrasive version of this.
    - Retric 11y ago
      The key point is going to walk away anyway Your goal should be to get several competitive offers rather than simply taking the first thing that somewhat fits. As such you should expect to walk away from several companies. In any major city you should easily be able to burn bridges it's simply not a big deal.
  - uremog 11y ago
    My form here needs my recruiter's salary before I can move on.
draw_down 11y ago
Hmm, I would just say something in line with what I want out of the new company. They want a number, they can have a number. They might not like it, but that's life.

TomSawyer 11y ago

This one? http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

cushychicken 11y ago
That's the one. Probably Patrick's best piece of advice, in terms of broad application.
- Terretta 11y ago
  Content is great. Anti-iDevice editor note is odd: > [Editor’s note: At nearly 7,000 words, you probably don’t want to try reading this on an iDevice. Bookmark it and come back later.] My iDevice is a 13" 5.6K screen that I hold in my hands like a magazine. Surely better suited to long form reading than a lower res rMBP I generally read at a desk or table. iPad had Retina display since iPad 3rd Gen released in 2012 when this was written.

ryguytilidie 11y ago

Recruiter here. I think: "The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter." is pretty simplistic and naive. You simply have to figure out how to get what you want. If you want 180 and currently make 140 and a recruiter asks what you make, just say something like "my expectation for my next role is around 180". You say that and you both probably get what you want and save a lot of back and forth.

skewart 11y ago
Exactly. There is never a reason to tell anyone your current salary, just what you're looking for now.
gedy 11y ago
Thanks for the insight. Though most of your peers I've dealt with only frame it as "what's your current salary" not expectations.
pc86 11y ago
Not a recruiter but I've gotten all but my current job through recruiters. I think the quoted moral still applies - you obviously have to disclose what you want to earn if you expect to actually earn that. However, what I made at my last job had zero bearing on my expected salary at my current job. If a recruiter is just trying to find out what I want, they can ask. However, I think more often than not they're getting paid on the spread and if they can place me in a job with a cap of $180 for $150, they'll do so and pocket whatever their percentage of the spread is.[0] [0] I know this isn't how all recruiters are paid, but many are.
- ryguytilidie 11y ago
  While I'm mostly an internal recruiting manager, I've signed a lot of these deals and have a lot of recruiter friends and know their general contract structure. I do not know of anyone and have never seen a recruiter compensation package where they were paid on spread. That just seems like an incentive to hire someone other than the best person for the job. Seems really strange to me.
  - pc86 11y ago
    As recently as 2010 Aerotek paid their recruiters exclusively on a percentage of spread.
pmiller2 11y ago
Exactly! I wish more recruiters thought like this. There's absolutely no point for either the recruiter or the candidate to go through an interview process only to get an offer that won't be accepted. For instance, I'm working at a great place right now, and it would take a significant bump in salary to get me to even consider moving.

gedy 11y ago

I've tried that (nicely), but it backfires too. Some companies are either old school or clueless on what to offer and have treated me pretty badly and called off interviewing further well into interviewing due not telling them that. E.g. "We've NEVER had someone be so stubborn about sharing their salary". I realize those places were likely toxic, but it can be never-wracking to someone who needs a job.

jrs235 11y ago
"We've NEVER had someone be so stubborn about sharing their salary". If I heard that and felt I was going to walk away anyway, I'd be tempted to throw back "How much do you make?" And watch to see if they squirm to not share. If they came back with "what I make has nothing to do with this position you're being interviewed for" come back with "then neither does my previous salaries, if they do then I need to know how much other folks in other positions in this company make so I can gauge whether I think this company will still be here in the future."
- cushychicken 11y ago
  The techniques in Patrick's post are a less abrasive version of this.
  - Retric 11y ago
    The key point is going to walk away anyway Your goal should be to get several competitive offers rather than simply taking the first thing that somewhat fits. As such you should expect to walk away from several companies. In any major city you should easily be able to burn bridges it's simply not a big deal.
- uremog 11y ago
  My form here needs my recruiter's salary before I can move on.

draw_down 11y ago

Hmm, I would just say something in line with what I want out of the new company. They want a number, they can have a number. They might not like it, but that's life.