6 ms·

Interview with Don Syme, the inventor of F#

33 points by profquail 17y ago

chwolfe 17y ago
"...nothing beats the uses of F# to implement statistical machine learning algorithms as part of the Bing advertisement delivery machinery." For those interested, I found a bit more information here (AdPredict): http://www.slideshare.net/lgayowski/taking-functional-programming-into-the-mainstream-eclipse-summit-europe-2009 http://www.slideshare.net/lgayowski/taking-functional-progra...
plinkplonk 17y ago
"F# also has a feature called ‘computation expressions,’ and we’re particularly happy with the unity we’ve achieved here. " Computation Expressions aka Monads "The designers of F# use term "computation expression" and "workflow" because its less obscure and daunting than the word "monad." [1] Monads for Morts? seriously though, is anyone really daunted by Monads? It is a great interview. Thanks for posting. F# is one thing I respect MS for. Linux/OSX really has no equivalent[2]. The ocaml implementation has a lot of catching up to do and Mono is a steaming pile of crap. [1] http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/F_Sharp_Programming/Computation_Expressions http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/F_Sharp_Programming/Computation... [2] Equivalent to F# . HAskell is a different (but awesome) language , thankfully available on all platforms
- deleted 17y ago
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- barrkel 17y ago
  I can't agree that Mono is a "steaming pile of crap". Mono lets me run my .NET utilities on OpenSolaris; that all by itself makes it a win and most definitely non-crap for me. My primary problem with it is its lack of a production grade precise compacting garbage collector.
  - runT1ME 17y ago
    >production grade precise compacting garbage collector Yeah, this is a big letdown. I'm surprised Novell can't devote the resources to finishing a halfway decent collector.
- deleted 17y ago
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- lstoakes 17y ago
  Could you justify why you think Mono is a 'steaming pile of crap'?! I've found it to be rather wonderful, not to mention that F# itself works perfectly fine under Mono.
Fixnum 17y ago
"According to many developers, it is the most original new face in computer languages since Bjarne Stroustrup developed C++ in the early 1980's." Uh, isn't F# mostly a derivative of OCaml (and Haskell)?
- gnosis 17y ago
  Yes. I'd much rather read an interview with Xavier Leroy, inventor of OCaml (which F# is basically a Microsoft appropriation of). Kind of ironic, but quite typical, that the people who really deserve the credit get passed over in favor of imitators.
- lssndrdn 17y ago
  It is a derivative of oCaml and Haskell, but it's also a multi-paradigm language that borrows from C# and Python. It has elements of imperative and OO. I don't know if it really is "the most original new face", and could be critized for trying to bring too many things into one, but it's not just a clone of Haskell or OCaml. [edited typo]
  - gnosis 17y ago
    OCaml is also a multi-paradigm language, in which you can program in imperative, functional, and object-oriented styles. Sorry, but F# basically is OCaml. F# code can even be compiled in an OCaml compiler, often without modification. The only credit I'll give Microsoft here is in not picking a shitty technology to copy, like they usually do (like Java for C# or VMS for NT).
    - tedunangst 17y ago
      "F# code can even be compiled in an OCaml compiler, often without modification." I think you have that backwards. The #light syntax preferred by F# is not compatible with ocaml. ocaml and the non light syntax are about the same though.
    - gaius 17y ago
      Why do you say VMS is "shitty"? Linux is 15-20 years behind it on clustering alone...
kristiandupont 17y ago
This is a nit, but wouldn't "designer" be a better word than "inventor"?
- profquail 17y ago
  Perhaps. I was trying to think of the right word when I submitted the story; I think some people consider themselves "inventors", some "designers", and some (mostly mathematicians) "discoverers".
lstoakes 17y ago
F# really is a wonderful programming language; I do think that the F# team, not to mention many F# developers undersell its beauty and usefulness simply as a general programming language, there always seems to have to be a mitigation such as 'it's complimentary to C#', etc., pity the language's creator goes along with that. F#'s pattern matching and type inference alone are easily superior to equivalent C# code, pretty well objectively, not to mention natural immutability and inbuilt tuples; all of these features very quickly feel vital and are missed in other languages; not to mention the inherent usefulness of F# for concurrent programming. With Mono you can use F# perfectly well in linux + on mac too, so there's no excuse for not trying it :)

33 points by profquail 17y ago

"...nothing beats the uses of F# to implement statistical machine learning algorithms as part of the Bing advertisement delivery machinery." For those interested, I found a bit more information here (AdPredict): http://www.slideshare.net/lgayowski/taking-functional-programming-into-the-mainstream-eclipse-summit-europe-2009 http://www.slideshare.net/lgayowski/taking-functional-progra...

plinkplonk 17y ago

"F# also has a feature called ‘computation expressions,’ and we’re particularly happy with the unity we’ve achieved here. " Computation Expressions aka Monads "The designers of F# use term "computation expression" and "workflow" because its less obscure and daunting than the word "monad." [1] Monads for Morts? seriously though, is anyone really daunted by Monads? It is a great interview. Thanks for posting. F# is one thing I respect MS for. Linux/OSX really has no equivalent[2]. The ocaml implementation has a lot of catching up to do and Mono is a steaming pile of crap. [1] http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/F_Sharp_Programming/Computation_Expressions http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/F_Sharp_Programming/Computation... [2] Equivalent to F# . HAskell is a different (but awesome) language , thankfully available on all platforms

deleted 17y ago
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barrkel 17y ago
I can't agree that Mono is a "steaming pile of crap". Mono lets me run my .NET utilities on OpenSolaris; that all by itself makes it a win and most definitely non-crap for me. My primary problem with it is its lack of a production grade precise compacting garbage collector.
- runT1ME 17y ago
  >production grade precise compacting garbage collector Yeah, this is a big letdown. I'm surprised Novell can't devote the resources to finishing a halfway decent collector.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
lstoakes 17y ago
Could you justify why you think Mono is a 'steaming pile of crap'?! I've found it to be rather wonderful, not to mention that F# itself works perfectly fine under Mono.

Fixnum 17y ago

"According to many developers, it is the most original new face in computer languages since Bjarne Stroustrup developed C++ in the early 1980's." Uh, isn't F# mostly a derivative of OCaml (and Haskell)?

gnosis 17y ago
Yes. I'd much rather read an interview with Xavier Leroy, inventor of OCaml (which F# is basically a Microsoft appropriation of). Kind of ironic, but quite typical, that the people who really deserve the credit get passed over in favor of imitators.
lssndrdn 17y ago
It is a derivative of oCaml and Haskell, but it's also a multi-paradigm language that borrows from C# and Python. It has elements of imperative and OO. I don't know if it really is "the most original new face", and could be critized for trying to bring too many things into one, but it's not just a clone of Haskell or OCaml. [edited typo]
- gnosis 17y ago
  OCaml is also a multi-paradigm language, in which you can program in imperative, functional, and object-oriented styles. Sorry, but F# basically is OCaml. F# code can even be compiled in an OCaml compiler, often without modification. The only credit I'll give Microsoft here is in not picking a shitty technology to copy, like they usually do (like Java for C# or VMS for NT).
  - tedunangst 17y ago
    "F# code can even be compiled in an OCaml compiler, often without modification." I think you have that backwards. The #light syntax preferred by F# is not compatible with ocaml. ocaml and the non light syntax are about the same though.
  - gaius 17y ago
    Why do you say VMS is "shitty"? Linux is 15-20 years behind it on clustering alone...

kristiandupont 17y ago

This is a nit, but wouldn't "designer" be a better word than "inventor"?

profquail 17y ago
Perhaps. I was trying to think of the right word when I submitted the story; I think some people consider themselves "inventors", some "designers", and some (mostly mathematicians) "discoverers".

lstoakes 17y ago

F# really is a wonderful programming language; I do think that the F# team, not to mention many F# developers undersell its beauty and usefulness simply as a general programming language, there always seems to have to be a mitigation such as 'it's complimentary to C#', etc., pity the language's creator goes along with that. F#'s pattern matching and type inference alone are easily superior to equivalent C# code, pretty well objectively, not to mention natural immutability and inbuilt tuples; all of these features very quickly feel vital and are missed in other languages; not to mention the inherent usefulness of F# for concurrent programming. With Mono you can use F# perfectly well in linux + on mac too, so there's no excuse for not trying it :)