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Get Started with Rkt Containers in Three Minutes

fapjacks 11y ago
You know, the CoreOS development team seems from the outside to be this rockstar group really hauling ass to make their container stuff phenomenal. Kudos to them for that kind of attitude in the face of the mountainous popularity of Docker. I personally feel like it's kind of a lost cause, but I have mad respect for their dev team for trying.
- iyn 11y ago
  I wouldn't be so sure about the 'lost cause'. rkt seems to be more modular than Docker which may have huge effect on the community-build tools and ecosystem around it. Ease of porting Dockerfiles to rkt format is also important. Plus, better security is a good selling point for the corporate world, I guess.
  - ecnahc515 11y ago
    You don't need to port Dockerfiles to anything actually if you don't want! rkt supports running Docker images, so you can keep using your Dockerfiles and the Docker build system if you wish. However, you can build rkt images (ACIs) from scratch using any build system you like if you still wish (as detailed in the blog post).
  - jvoorhis 11y ago
    Better security should be a good selling point for anyone who wants to use containers at all, especially when money changes hands or privacy is a concern.
- wstrange 11y ago
  Isn't it essential an alternate implementation of the same underlying spec? (appc). I don't think they need to "beat" docker to have a viable product.
  - fapjacks 11y ago
    No, you're totally right. But Billy the Programmer who first looks at containerizing his application (or dev environment or whatever) is going to choose Docker, because that's what everyone else is doing. Not to sound trite, but most people defer technical decisions to other people. This is the reason so many Windows machines exist, and why it has such a huge market share: End users don't know and don't care, they just pick what the manufacturer installs on the device. They are outsourcing their technical decisions (exactly like most distros did with systemd and the Debian TC). It's the classic appeal to popularity, which is totally how most people (even technical people) make the decision of which software to use.
    - IanCal 11y ago
      There's another reason too, if more people are using X then I'm far more likely to be able to find help getting over whatever problem I hit.
      - fapjacks 11y ago
        Yes totally this! I spend a huge amount of time in #docker on Freenode pointing people at resources to solve their problems. I am fairly regular in my "there is no right answer, just the best answer for your environment" attitude, but I always point exactly at what you've said: "But if you do it this way, there's a huge amount of prior work done solving this problem versus the way you want to go"...
  - bpicolo 11y ago
    To be fair, docker defined appc.
    - cyphar 11y ago
      No, Docker defined the open containers spec (runC). appc is something else.
  - cyphar 11y ago
    > Isn't it essential an alternate implementation of the same underlying spec? (appc). No, appc and open containers are two separate specs. Not to mention that Docker doesn't actually implement the open containers spec (it hooks into libcontainer, which is the body of the implementation of the spec -- runC).
- bryanlarsen 11y ago
  rkt imports docker images quite well, so by using rocket you might get a "best of both worlds" type benefit.
- goldbrick 11y ago
  I'm only marginally familiar with etcd (which I understand to be something like a worse Zookeeper) and CoreOS itself (which I don't see the point of at all -- I gather it's based on ChromeOS?). I would love to know if there's any kind of blow-by-blow account of why their stuff is worth investigating, kind of like Hashicorp does for their products.
  - philips 11y ago
    There is a document written about the differences between rkt and all of the other container tools and engines: https://coreos.com/rkt/docs/latest/rkt-vs-other-projects.html https://coreos.com/rkt/docs/latest/rkt-vs-other-projects.htm... Something similar for etcd should exist but we haven't gotten around to that. Thank you for the feedback, I know these types of docs can be very helpful.
    - goldbrick 11y ago
      Thanks, this is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for.
  - jvoorhis 11y ago
    Hashicorp does an amazing job explaining their products, especially their comparison pages. CoreOS could learn a thing or two.

You know, the CoreOS development team seems from the outside to be this rockstar group really hauling ass to make their container stuff phenomenal. Kudos to them for that kind of attitude in the face of the mountainous popularity of Docker. I personally feel like it's kind of a lost cause, but I have mad respect for their dev team for trying.

iyn 11y ago
I wouldn't be so sure about the 'lost cause'. rkt seems to be more modular than Docker which may have huge effect on the community-build tools and ecosystem around it. Ease of porting Dockerfiles to rkt format is also important. Plus, better security is a good selling point for the corporate world, I guess.
- ecnahc515 11y ago
  You don't need to port Dockerfiles to anything actually if you don't want! rkt supports running Docker images, so you can keep using your Dockerfiles and the Docker build system if you wish. However, you can build rkt images (ACIs) from scratch using any build system you like if you still wish (as detailed in the blog post).
- jvoorhis 11y ago
  Better security should be a good selling point for anyone who wants to use containers at all, especially when money changes hands or privacy is a concern.
wstrange 11y ago
Isn't it essential an alternate implementation of the same underlying spec? (appc). I don't think they need to "beat" docker to have a viable product.
- fapjacks 11y ago
  No, you're totally right. But Billy the Programmer who first looks at containerizing his application (or dev environment or whatever) is going to choose Docker, because that's what everyone else is doing. Not to sound trite, but most people defer technical decisions to other people. This is the reason so many Windows machines exist, and why it has such a huge market share: End users don't know and don't care, they just pick what the manufacturer installs on the device. They are outsourcing their technical decisions (exactly like most distros did with systemd and the Debian TC). It's the classic appeal to popularity, which is totally how most people (even technical people) make the decision of which software to use.
  - IanCal 11y ago
    There's another reason too, if more people are using X then I'm far more likely to be able to find help getting over whatever problem I hit.
    - fapjacks 11y ago
      Yes totally this! I spend a huge amount of time in #docker on Freenode pointing people at resources to solve their problems. I am fairly regular in my "there is no right answer, just the best answer for your environment" attitude, but I always point exactly at what you've said: "But if you do it this way, there's a huge amount of prior work done solving this problem versus the way you want to go"...
- bpicolo 11y ago
  To be fair, docker defined appc.
  - cyphar 11y ago
    No, Docker defined the open containers spec (runC). appc is something else.
- cyphar 11y ago
  > Isn't it essential an alternate implementation of the same underlying spec? (appc). No, appc and open containers are two separate specs. Not to mention that Docker doesn't actually implement the open containers spec (it hooks into libcontainer, which is the body of the implementation of the spec -- runC).
bryanlarsen 11y ago
rkt imports docker images quite well, so by using rocket you might get a "best of both worlds" type benefit.
goldbrick 11y ago
I'm only marginally familiar with etcd (which I understand to be something like a worse Zookeeper) and CoreOS itself (which I don't see the point of at all -- I gather it's based on ChromeOS?). I would love to know if there's any kind of blow-by-blow account of why their stuff is worth investigating, kind of like Hashicorp does for their products.
- philips 11y ago
  There is a document written about the differences between rkt and all of the other container tools and engines: https://coreos.com/rkt/docs/latest/rkt-vs-other-projects.html https://coreos.com/rkt/docs/latest/rkt-vs-other-projects.htm... Something similar for etcd should exist but we haven't gotten around to that. Thank you for the feedback, I know these types of docs can be very helpful.
  - goldbrick 11y ago
    Thanks, this is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for.
- jvoorhis 11y ago
  Hashicorp does an amazing job explaining their products, especially their comparison pages. CoreOS could learn a thing or two.