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"...never give up rolling hose, never give up tools, ..." This certainly provides insight into the deaths of 27 wildland firefighters who died disregarding ord

"...never give up rolling hose, never give up tools, ..." This certainly provides insight into the deaths of 27 wildland firefighters who died disregarding orders to drop their heavy tools (so they could outrun a wildfire): "Drop Your Tools: An Allegory for Organizational Studies" by Karl Weick at http://www19.homepage.villanova.edu/gregory.gull/MBA8510.html/DropTools_Weick.htm http://www19.homepage.villanova.edu/gregory.gull/MBA8510.htm...

ludicast 11y ago
That is fascinating, thanks. There definitely is point where the primary life hazard is us and we fail to realize it sometimes. Reminds me of the speech from The Edge. "Most people in the wilderness die of shame ... instead of thinking". That said, all fatal fire reports have one thing in common. All the people who read them think "I have no clue what I would have done if that was me".
- JshWright 11y ago
  That's what intelligent, self-aware people think (on good days).
exhilaration 11y ago
Superb article, thank you. Makes me think about my resistance to a manager telling me to drop a particular piece of software or tooling in favor of something else.
jspielberg 11y ago
Long time lurker on hacker news. This topic inspired me to finally register. Wildland operations are a completely different skill set from structural firefighting. That is why there is a separate certification (red card). While I never was red card certified, our small town department in Colorado was asked during the occasional summer to provide structural support (or wildland if certified) for some of the mountain towns (lodgepole pine beetle kill). This freed up the wildland folks to do their thing. We got enough training to learn that basically the only tool that should be carried when speed is of the essence is your portable shelter. Granted it looks like out training came a decade after the above fire, so lessons learned are being disseminated. Sad to hear about the 27 brother and sisters who lost their lives on the line. Regarding admired fire departments, Phoenix fire seemed to show up a lot in our trainings as a source that really focused on data driven strategy and tactics. (10 year retired volunteer Firefighter)

ludicast 11y ago

That is fascinating, thanks. There definitely is point where the primary life hazard is us and we fail to realize it sometimes. Reminds me of the speech from The Edge. "Most people in the wilderness die of shame ... instead of thinking". That said, all fatal fire reports have one thing in common. All the people who read them think "I have no clue what I would have done if that was me".

JshWright 11y ago
That's what intelligent, self-aware people think (on good days).

exhilaration 11y ago

Superb article, thank you. Makes me think about my resistance to a manager telling me to drop a particular piece of software or tooling in favor of something else.

jspielberg 11y ago

Long time lurker on hacker news. This topic inspired me to finally register. Wildland operations are a completely different skill set from structural firefighting. That is why there is a separate certification (red card). While I never was red card certified, our small town department in Colorado was asked during the occasional summer to provide structural support (or wildland if certified) for some of the mountain towns (lodgepole pine beetle kill). This freed up the wildland folks to do their thing. We got enough training to learn that basically the only tool that should be carried when speed is of the essence is your portable shelter. Granted it looks like out training came a decade after the above fire, so lessons learned are being disseminated. Sad to hear about the 27 brother and sisters who lost their lives on the line. Regarding admired fire departments, Phoenix fire seemed to show up a lot in our trainings as a source that really focused on data driven strategy and tactics. (10 year retired volunteer Firefighter)