6 ms·

My sister works as a primary teacher in the London area. She's Canadian, and can't find a job in Ontario (we pay our teachers very well, so there's rarely a sho

by mabbo 11y ago

My sister works as a primary teacher in the London area. She's Canadian, and can't find a job in Ontario (we pay our teachers very well, so there's rarely a shortage). But the British don't pay their teachers very well, meaning that talented teachers like her who are working hard to contribute to Britain's future for fairly paltry wages would be kicked out of the country under this plan. If Britain can't meet it's demand for teachers at the wages it wants to offer without immigration, how do they expect to do it when they kick all the immigrants out? In essence, it's going to mean that British taxpayers have to foot the bill for the higher wages needed to get British teachers, or else some schools will simply have not enough teachers at all. It saddens me that such a fantastic country would be so short-sighted.

m0nty 11y ago
Just one other data point: a friend teaches IT and cannot find any permanent employment, it's all temporary gigs of three or six months. So in some respects, it might be like IT workers - they are there, but employers are ruling them out for inscrutable reasons, and demanding access to migrants instead.
xioxox 11y ago
Surely it's a good thing for British teachers to have higher wages? It would encourage British people to go into teaching, become educated and pass on that education. Britain has a problem with stagnant wages and concentration of wealth.
- vixen99 11y ago
  And it would seem in literacy and numeracy. 2013 OECD study on England's 16 to 24-year-olds: - 22nd for literacy and 21st for numeracy out of 24 countries.
namenotrequired 11y ago
One more data point: my friend is a doctor and has lived in the UK for about 9 years. She's terribly overworked and makes less than the stated amount.
- GFischer 11y ago
  Wow... in my countries, doctors are by far the best paid among "standard" professions, and most make about that amout - working 2 or 3 jobs and being terribly overworked as well, but I'm sure their standard of living is much better. And many are tempted to move to Brazil or other countries. So I guess she should try to move (unless she likes the UK a lot).
- stuxnet79 11y ago
  NHS can't afford to pay it's doctors rockstar wages because it is arguably the most efficient healthcare system on the planet.
  - DrScump 11y ago
    I can't see how "NHS can't afford to pay it's (sic) doctors rockstar wages" follows from "it is arguably the most efficient healthcare system on the planet". Why are these mutually exclusive?
    - stuxnet79 11y ago
      Efficient in the sense that you get more bang for your buck healthcare wise in the UK than you would get from the US or any other country that follows the US model. NHS is already barely able to make ends meet right now and would basically flop as a system if it had to match US wages for doctors. US healthcare in comparison to UK healthcare is bloated, costly and inefficient in the sense that a whole lot of money is spent with nothing to show of it (patients are not getting any better services). For more information on this read "The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care" Also is the use of 'sic' really necessary? I find it to be pretentious.
- arethuza 11y ago
  She must still be in training then as most qualified doctors in the UK NHS earn way more than that: https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/about/careers-medicine/pay-doctors https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/about/careers-medicine/pay-... Worth noting that there are no limits on what doctors in private practice can earn and some NHS doctors do private work on the side to augment their NHS salaries.
mjevans 11y ago
It isn't the wage it's self that bothers me, it is this 35K GBP figure without any other context that bothers me. I think it depends entirely on if someone is trying to become /part/ of a country, or if they are merely there to work in it. For the former the rules should be more lax, that person should need to make at least the median wage for a given job (until they are fully emigrated). For the latter that person should need to make at least 150% of the median wage. Family's complicate the decision; but I would say that the most favored member of the family should be the deciding factor.
stuxnet79 11y ago
Was confused with this for a moment as I thought you were referring to London, Ontario. Anyways it is a pity that your sister may be impacted by this not so well thought out mandate. I also have a friend who graduated from teacher's college (OISE) last year but left for South America.
- mabbo 11y ago
  Ha, no, not that London. She's love to have a job there- they pay teachers well.

by mabbo 11y ago

m0nty 11y ago

Just one other data point: a friend teaches IT and cannot find any permanent employment, it's all temporary gigs of three or six months. So in some respects, it might be like IT workers - they are there, but employers are ruling them out for inscrutable reasons, and demanding access to migrants instead.

xioxox 11y ago

Surely it's a good thing for British teachers to have higher wages? It would encourage British people to go into teaching, become educated and pass on that education. Britain has a problem with stagnant wages and concentration of wealth.

vixen99 11y ago
And it would seem in literacy and numeracy. 2013 OECD study on England's 16 to 24-year-olds: - 22nd for literacy and 21st for numeracy out of 24 countries.

namenotrequired 11y ago

One more data point: my friend is a doctor and has lived in the UK for about 9 years. She's terribly overworked and makes less than the stated amount.

GFischer 11y ago
Wow... in my countries, doctors are by far the best paid among "standard" professions, and most make about that amout - working 2 or 3 jobs and being terribly overworked as well, but I'm sure their standard of living is much better. And many are tempted to move to Brazil or other countries. So I guess she should try to move (unless she likes the UK a lot).
stuxnet79 11y ago
NHS can't afford to pay it's doctors rockstar wages because it is arguably the most efficient healthcare system on the planet.
- DrScump 11y ago
  I can't see how "NHS can't afford to pay it's (sic) doctors rockstar wages" follows from "it is arguably the most efficient healthcare system on the planet". Why are these mutually exclusive?
  - stuxnet79 11y ago
    Efficient in the sense that you get more bang for your buck healthcare wise in the UK than you would get from the US or any other country that follows the US model. NHS is already barely able to make ends meet right now and would basically flop as a system if it had to match US wages for doctors. US healthcare in comparison to UK healthcare is bloated, costly and inefficient in the sense that a whole lot of money is spent with nothing to show of it (patients are not getting any better services). For more information on this read "The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care" Also is the use of 'sic' really necessary? I find it to be pretentious.
arethuza 11y ago
She must still be in training then as most qualified doctors in the UK NHS earn way more than that: https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/about/careers-medicine/pay-doctors https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/about/careers-medicine/pay-... Worth noting that there are no limits on what doctors in private practice can earn and some NHS doctors do private work on the side to augment their NHS salaries.

mjevans 11y ago

It isn't the wage it's self that bothers me, it is this 35K GBP figure without any other context that bothers me. I think it depends entirely on if someone is trying to become /part/ of a country, or if they are merely there to work in it. For the former the rules should be more lax, that person should need to make at least the median wage for a given job (until they are fully emigrated). For the latter that person should need to make at least 150% of the median wage. Family's complicate the decision; but I would say that the most favored member of the family should be the deciding factor.

stuxnet79 11y ago

Was confused with this for a moment as I thought you were referring to London, Ontario. Anyways it is a pity that your sister may be impacted by this not so well thought out mandate. I also have a friend who graduated from teacher's college (OISE) last year but left for South America.

mabbo 11y ago
Ha, no, not that London. She's love to have a job there- they pay teachers well.