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>Not all air combat is done in a dogfight. You're right, almost none of it is. >Most A2A kills in the last 30 years have been BVR shots. Which the F-35 will e

by na85 11y ago

>Not all air combat is done in a dogfight. You're right, almost none of it is. >Most A2A kills in the last 30 years have been BVR shots. Which the F-35 will excel at. Negative, Ghostrider. It still has to be able to catch its prey, which it's not fast enough to do. And faster aircraft can still prevent it from disengaging. Speed is life in air combat. >And I'm glad you know the truth about stealth. It is useless you know. That's why the Russians, the Chinese and now the Germans are starting to build 5th Gen stealth aircraft. All to prop up the illusion that it's just a boondoggle, and "mostly worthless." What are we, on reddit? You're purposely being snide and also purposely misinterpreting what I've written. Stealth itself, as a concept, is not worthless. The F-35's stealth technology has been compromised, therefore it is of little value against an adversary such as China or Russia. >Back to reality. Stealth is very useful, that's why countries work tirelessly to find countermeasures. Some of these work to a degree, some have potential. Stealth isn't magic, it's just a useful tool; like jamming, like AWACs, like OPFOR training. But to deny its merits is just ignorant. I'm now convinced you are trolling. Enjoy your evening.

richmarr 11y ago
> I'm now convinced you are trolling. Enjoy your evening. I think @greedo self-outed with the "quit reading the press" comment... posturing some secret source of information more authorititive than the damning reports from test pilots, pentagon office of testing, etc... Lockheed's PR dept maybe.
- greedo 11y ago
  LOL. Nice try. If you thought I was a sock puppet for LM, it would only take a few minutes of looking at my comment history.
  - richmarr 11y ago
    > LOL. Nice try. If you thought I was a sock puppet for LM, it would only take a few minutes of looking at my comment history. TROLOLOLOLL... your ploy to miss the point doesn't fool me :)
    - greedo 11y ago
      ;) I wish I was paid by LM. Thing is, everyone has an axe to grind with the F-35. Despite its shortcomings, its all we have in the pipeline, until the 6th gen fighters come online in a decade or so. Without something like the F-35 paired with the F-22, we have no chance of penetrating a modern IAD.
greedo 11y ago
How am I misinterpreting what you've written. You said "stealth is mostly worthless" a statement that is factually incorrect. You also are speculating as to how much technology the Chinese have stolen, and how easily that technology is to integrate into their own airframes, and how easy to counteract with their AD technology. The idea that the Chinese can just steal some autocad drawings and crank out competitive aircraft isn't realistic. They lack the experience in engine design and manufacturing for starters. Much of their military technology is either licensed from Russia, and then reverse engineered. Yet they still can't produce an engine even close to the PWF135. And speed isn't life in air combat. Situational awareness is. And someone flying a POS MIG/Sukhoi will get slapped by a slower aircraft if the MIG is unable to detect, track and engage the F-35. Ask the Iraqi's how well they did running away to Iran? Ask them how their MIG-25s did against slower F-15s? Or ask the Syrians why they stopped flying Foxbats over Israel once the Israelis got the slower F-15. The reason is because top end speed isn't the be all and end all of fighter performance. And thanks for the ad hominem at the end. Nice to know that you've run out of logic and facts for your arguments.
- na85 11y ago
  >The idea that the Chinese can just steal some autocad drawings and crank out competitive aircraft isn't realistic. They lack the experience in engine design and manufacturing for starters. Much of their military technology is either licensed from Russia, and then reverse engineered. Yet they still can't produce an engine even close to the PWF135. Yeah those silly Chinks aren't smart enough. Huaaaah, America!
  - greedo 11y ago
    It's not a matter of smart enough. It's a matter of experience, institutional knowledge, workers skilled in the necessary tasks. The Chinese are plenty smart, despite your strawman. Look how they're pursuing a carrier fleet. Are they trying to build a CVN immediately? Nope, they're taking incremental steps with a secondhand refurbished conventional carrier. Iterating towards a long term goal, because they know war isn't Starcraft. It's why when they wanted to develop a modern 4th gen fighter, they partnered with the Israelis to leverage the Lavi designs that became the J10. You can be snide and set up strawmen, or you can back up your statements with facts, not ill-informed opinions.

by na85 11y ago

richmarr 11y ago

> I'm now convinced you are trolling. Enjoy your evening. I think @greedo self-outed with the "quit reading the press" comment... posturing some secret source of information more authorititive than the damning reports from test pilots, pentagon office of testing, etc... Lockheed's PR dept maybe.

greedo 11y ago
LOL. Nice try. If you thought I was a sock puppet for LM, it would only take a few minutes of looking at my comment history.
- richmarr 11y ago
  > LOL. Nice try. If you thought I was a sock puppet for LM, it would only take a few minutes of looking at my comment history. TROLOLOLOLL... your ploy to miss the point doesn't fool me :)
  - greedo 11y ago
    ;) I wish I was paid by LM. Thing is, everyone has an axe to grind with the F-35. Despite its shortcomings, its all we have in the pipeline, until the 6th gen fighters come online in a decade or so. Without something like the F-35 paired with the F-22, we have no chance of penetrating a modern IAD.

greedo 11y ago

How am I misinterpreting what you've written. You said "stealth is mostly worthless" a statement that is factually incorrect. You also are speculating as to how much technology the Chinese have stolen, and how easily that technology is to integrate into their own airframes, and how easy to counteract with their AD technology. The idea that the Chinese can just steal some autocad drawings and crank out competitive aircraft isn't realistic. They lack the experience in engine design and manufacturing for starters. Much of their military technology is either licensed from Russia, and then reverse engineered. Yet they still can't produce an engine even close to the PWF135. And speed isn't life in air combat. Situational awareness is. And someone flying a POS MIG/Sukhoi will get slapped by a slower aircraft if the MIG is unable to detect, track and engage the F-35. Ask the Iraqi's how well they did running away to Iran? Ask them how their MIG-25s did against slower F-15s? Or ask the Syrians why they stopped flying Foxbats over Israel once the Israelis got the slower F-15. The reason is because top end speed isn't the be all and end all of fighter performance. And thanks for the ad hominem at the end. Nice to know that you've run out of logic and facts for your arguments.

na85 11y ago
>The idea that the Chinese can just steal some autocad drawings and crank out competitive aircraft isn't realistic. They lack the experience in engine design and manufacturing for starters. Much of their military technology is either licensed from Russia, and then reverse engineered. Yet they still can't produce an engine even close to the PWF135. Yeah those silly Chinks aren't smart enough. Huaaaah, America!
- greedo 11y ago
  It's not a matter of smart enough. It's a matter of experience, institutional knowledge, workers skilled in the necessary tasks. The Chinese are plenty smart, despite your strawman. Look how they're pursuing a carrier fleet. Are they trying to build a CVN immediately? Nope, they're taking incremental steps with a secondhand refurbished conventional carrier. Iterating towards a long term goal, because they know war isn't Starcraft. It's why when they wanted to develop a modern 4th gen fighter, they partnered with the Israelis to leverage the Lavi designs that became the J10. You can be snide and set up strawmen, or you can back up your statements with facts, not ill-informed opinions.