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The F-35 is slower and less maneuverable than nearly any contemporary fighter aircraft. It cannot avoid an engagement, nor press the attack.

by na85 11y ago

greedo 11y ago
Quit reading the press that loves to paint military spending as a waste. The F-35 isn't a dog, it may not be as fast as the fastest jets, or as maneuverable as the most agile, but it's not like it's a C-130... It has stealth, so it can avoid an engagement if need be, or maneuver so the engagement is on more favorable terms. Try that with a 4th gen aircraft.
- na85 11y ago
  >The F-35 isn't a dog, it may not be as fast as the fastest jets, or as maneuverable as the most agile Yes. It's slower, and less agile. Than other fighter aircraft. It can't win a dogfight. Period. >It has stealth, so it can avoid an engagement if need be, or maneuver so the engagement is on more favorable terms. Which the Chinese will surely counter, since they stole the blueprints. That stealth is mostly worthless.
  - greedo 11y ago
    Glad you're so convinced that it can't win. Period. That is so comforting. Not all air combat is done in a dogfight. Most A2A kills in the last 30 years have been BVR shots. Which the F-35 will excel at. And I'm glad you know the truth about stealth. It is useless you know. That's why the Russians, the Chinese and now the Germans are starting to build 5th Gen stealth aircraft. All to prop up the illusion that it's just a boondoggle, and "mostly worthless." Back to reality. Stealth is very useful, that's why countries work tirelessly to find countermeasures. Some of these work to a degree, some have potential. Stealth isn't magic, it's just a useful tool; like jamming, like AWACs, like OPFOR training. But to deny its merits is just ignorant.
    - na85 11y ago
      >Not all air combat is done in a dogfight. You're right, almost none of it is. >Most A2A kills in the last 30 years have been BVR shots. Which the F-35 will excel at. Negative, Ghostrider. It still has to be able to catch its prey, which it's not fast enough to do. And faster aircraft can still prevent it from disengaging. Speed is life in air combat. >And I'm glad you know the truth about stealth. It is useless you know. That's why the Russians, the Chinese and now the Germans are starting to build 5th Gen stealth aircraft. All to prop up the illusion that it's just a boondoggle, and "mostly worthless." What are we, on reddit? You're purposely being snide and also purposely misinterpreting what I've written. Stealth itself, as a concept, is not worthless. The F-35's stealth technology has been compromised, therefore it is of little value against an adversary such as China or Russia. >Back to reality. Stealth is very useful, that's why countries work tirelessly to find countermeasures. Some of these work to a degree, some have potential. Stealth isn't magic, it's just a useful tool; like jamming, like AWACs, like OPFOR training. But to deny its merits is just ignorant. I'm now convinced you are trolling. Enjoy your evening.
      - richmarr 11y ago
        > I'm now convinced you are trolling. Enjoy your evening. I think @greedo self-outed with the "quit reading the press" comment... posturing some secret source of information more authorititive than the damning reports from test pilots, pentagon office of testing, etc... Lockheed's PR dept maybe.
        greedo 11y ago
        LOL. Nice try. If you thought I was a sock puppet for LM, it would only take a few minutes of looking at my comment history.
        richmarr 11y ago
        > LOL. Nice try. If you thought I was a sock puppet for LM, it would only take a few minutes of looking at my comment history. TROLOLOLOLL... your ploy to miss the point doesn't fool me :)
  - gozur88 11y ago
    >It can't win a dogfight. Period. The idea is to win before the dogfight. And having the blueprints for a stealth plane is not the same thing as being able to counter it.
    - daemin 11y ago
      The problem is that this will never be entirely possible. So if your first and only option fails, you're screwed.
      - gozur88 11y ago
        Not really, no. Dogfights don't happen one-on-one like in the movies. The air frame's flight performance is less important than other considerations. You're still better off winning most of your battles BVR and relying on your wingman in a dogfight than going toe to toe in every battle.
        greedo 11y ago
        People watch Top Gun too much and think everyone is zooming around the sky on their own, pulling dumbass maneuvers. Or they think that reading a Tom Clancy novel means they know how the military functions.
        na85 11y ago
        Are you a military fighter pilot?
  - mlonkibjuyhv 11y ago
    I think you're forgetting that the f35 carries all its stores internally, and can reach that speed and pull those turns fully loaded. In order for an f16 to reach its top speed or pull 9g it has to be in a clean configuration, meaning just two sidewinders and no external fuel.
apr 11y ago
That is a completely different issue. I am not saying that F-35 is the greatest fighter plane in history. If it were there would not be so much controversy around it.
- na85 11y ago
  It's not a completely different issue. The F-35 can't do the things that the parent post suggested it could to avoid the cheaper interceptors, because it's too slow to avoid the engagement and too cumbersome to win a dogfight.

The F-35 is slower and less maneuverable than nearly any contemporary fighter aircraft. It cannot avoid an engagement, nor press the attack.

by na85 11y ago

The F-35 is slower and less maneuverable than nearly any contemporary fighter aircraft. It cannot avoid an engagement, nor press the attack.

greedo 11y ago

Quit reading the press that loves to paint military spending as a waste. The F-35 isn't a dog, it may not be as fast as the fastest jets, or as maneuverable as the most agile, but it's not like it's a C-130... It has stealth, so it can avoid an engagement if need be, or maneuver so the engagement is on more favorable terms. Try that with a 4th gen aircraft.

na85 11y ago
>The F-35 isn't a dog, it may not be as fast as the fastest jets, or as maneuverable as the most agile Yes. It's slower, and less agile. Than other fighter aircraft. It can't win a dogfight. Period. >It has stealth, so it can avoid an engagement if need be, or maneuver so the engagement is on more favorable terms. Which the Chinese will surely counter, since they stole the blueprints. That stealth is mostly worthless.
- greedo 11y ago
  Glad you're so convinced that it can't win. Period. That is so comforting. Not all air combat is done in a dogfight. Most A2A kills in the last 30 years have been BVR shots. Which the F-35 will excel at. And I'm glad you know the truth about stealth. It is useless you know. That's why the Russians, the Chinese and now the Germans are starting to build 5th Gen stealth aircraft. All to prop up the illusion that it's just a boondoggle, and "mostly worthless." Back to reality. Stealth is very useful, that's why countries work tirelessly to find countermeasures. Some of these work to a degree, some have potential. Stealth isn't magic, it's just a useful tool; like jamming, like AWACs, like OPFOR training. But to deny its merits is just ignorant.
  - na85 11y ago
    >Not all air combat is done in a dogfight. You're right, almost none of it is. >Most A2A kills in the last 30 years have been BVR shots. Which the F-35 will excel at. Negative, Ghostrider. It still has to be able to catch its prey, which it's not fast enough to do. And faster aircraft can still prevent it from disengaging. Speed is life in air combat. >And I'm glad you know the truth about stealth. It is useless you know. That's why the Russians, the Chinese and now the Germans are starting to build 5th Gen stealth aircraft. All to prop up the illusion that it's just a boondoggle, and "mostly worthless." What are we, on reddit? You're purposely being snide and also purposely misinterpreting what I've written. Stealth itself, as a concept, is not worthless. The F-35's stealth technology has been compromised, therefore it is of little value against an adversary such as China or Russia. >Back to reality. Stealth is very useful, that's why countries work tirelessly to find countermeasures. Some of these work to a degree, some have potential. Stealth isn't magic, it's just a useful tool; like jamming, like AWACs, like OPFOR training. But to deny its merits is just ignorant. I'm now convinced you are trolling. Enjoy your evening.
    - richmarr 11y ago
      > I'm now convinced you are trolling. Enjoy your evening. I think @greedo self-outed with the "quit reading the press" comment... posturing some secret source of information more authorititive than the damning reports from test pilots, pentagon office of testing, etc... Lockheed's PR dept maybe.
      - greedo 11y ago
        LOL. Nice try. If you thought I was a sock puppet for LM, it would only take a few minutes of looking at my comment history.
        richmarr 11y ago
        > LOL. Nice try. If you thought I was a sock puppet for LM, it would only take a few minutes of looking at my comment history. TROLOLOLOLL... your ploy to miss the point doesn't fool me :)
- gozur88 11y ago
  >It can't win a dogfight. Period. The idea is to win before the dogfight. And having the blueprints for a stealth plane is not the same thing as being able to counter it.
  - daemin 11y ago
    The problem is that this will never be entirely possible. So if your first and only option fails, you're screwed.
    - gozur88 11y ago
      Not really, no. Dogfights don't happen one-on-one like in the movies. The air frame's flight performance is less important than other considerations. You're still better off winning most of your battles BVR and relying on your wingman in a dogfight than going toe to toe in every battle.
      - greedo 11y ago
        People watch Top Gun too much and think everyone is zooming around the sky on their own, pulling dumbass maneuvers. Or they think that reading a Tom Clancy novel means they know how the military functions.
        na85 11y ago
        Are you a military fighter pilot?
- mlonkibjuyhv 11y ago
  I think you're forgetting that the f35 carries all its stores internally, and can reach that speed and pull those turns fully loaded. In order for an f16 to reach its top speed or pull 9g it has to be in a clean configuration, meaning just two sidewinders and no external fuel.

apr 11y ago

That is a completely different issue. I am not saying that F-35 is the greatest fighter plane in history. If it were there would not be so much controversy around it.

na85 11y ago
It's not a completely different issue. The F-35 can't do the things that the parent post suggested it could to avoid the cheaper interceptors, because it's too slow to avoid the engagement and too cumbersome to win a dogfight.