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As a non-YC startup, I feel it quite unfair to be subsidizing other startups with our fees to DO. Which is a shame because I really appreciate and enjoy what t

by bmh_ca 11y ago

As a non-YC startup, I feel it quite unfair to be subsidizing other startups with our fees to DO. Which is a shame because I really appreciate and enjoy what the DO engineers have done. Nonetheless, I feel slighted, and while I had been otherwise happy with the service I am now all of a sudden incentivized to explore places more ecumenical. The feeling for me will probably pass, but I wonder how many other people have been similarly slighted.

assocguilt 11y ago
Odd use of the word ecumenical.
- shoyer 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure the OP intended to write "economical" instead.
  - ossama 11y ago
    More likely "equitable"
  - geofft 11y ago
    No, I think "ecumenical" in the less common sense of the word, "worldwide or general in extent, influence, or application," makes perfect sense here. Or even in the usual sense of the word, if you're making an analogy between startup accelerators and Christian denominations. It's a pretty good analogy, since despite small differences in belief and large differences in culture and practice, everyone has roughly the same goals. A Lutheran might feel particularly slighted at a program that gives free choral music to Anglicans, because they sing all the same anthems and none of the differences are relevant, and so restricting the free stuff to Anglicans rubs in the difference for no good reason. This is quite different from the way a Buddhist or an atheist would feel slighted by not getting that free music. Given that OP claimed the feeling will pass, I don't think "economical" quite makes sense.
  - bmh_ca 11y ago
    Geoff's comment nails the intent.
- dllthomas 11y ago
  Unusual but not incorrect. My understanding has it that the religious sense is a (very common) specialization of a more general meaning along the lines of "treating different groups the same".
bnchrch 11y ago
I don't understand why you would feel slighted, this is just a business partnership (albiet a large one) and no different than when Microsoft offered $500, 000 in azure credits to YC companies. There are certain perks to joining an organization of entrepreneurs and developers, this is one of them.
- throwaway13337 11y ago
  Microsoft also offers 27k of azure service to non-YC startups so it's not like you're left out in the cold if you're not a part of the club. https://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/about/default.aspx https://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/about/default.aspx
  - dikaiosune 11y ago
    I think that's fair to point out, but it's an order of magnitude difference (especially in the context of the other comp'd services YC companies get in their first year or two).
- kuschku 11y ago
  Think about it this way: You’re a startup, and a significant percentage of the money you sent is directly given to your competitors. Which is what’s happening here. If you’re a non-YC startup using DO, you’re directly financing your competitors.
nhangen 11y ago
Absolutely. This reads like a big fuck you to anyone that chooses to go it alone and/or doesn't want to submit themselves to the YC complex.
- paulddraper 11y ago
  You're exaggerating.
- rickycook 11y ago
  also (and this applies to a very large number of other services too) this excludes anyone not willing to reside in Silicon Valley for their business
pbreit 11y ago
I'd feel even better about Digital Ocean. This ensures that it will stick around and I'm guessing the YC folks are a demanding bunch and so will will DO forward.
Scarbutt 11y ago
Its just business as usual, this gives them more exposure and good PR, with the financial gain this might bring to them you will enjoy a better (and maybe even cheaper) service in the future, looks like a win-win situation to me.
andrewsomething 11y ago
We're always looking for ways to help startups get up and running on our platform. If you're not a YC company, reach out to our customer success team. They can help you get started. If you're already a DO user, they can help you scale up. https://www.digitalocean.com/company/contact/sales/ https://www.digitalocean.com/company/contact/sales/
- nhangen 11y ago
  nobody wants to talk to a sales guy...
  - vecter 11y ago
    Really? If I want to discuss pricing, a sales guy is exactly who I want to talk to.
    - nhangen 11y ago
      As a founder, I've got sales guys cold calling and emailing me all day long. They are usually new, and completely disconnected from the realities that a startup founder faces. They also generally lack the authority to make decisions, so the call always ends up as a waste of time.
      - vecter 11y ago
        Who do you want to talk to then? Unless you're a big customer, the founder or VP of the company selling to you is probably (understandably) too busy to talk to you. If they really want your business, the sales person will escalate it appropriately. If they don't want it bad enough ... they won't get it.
      - schrodinger 11y ago
        Don't wanna work for the company you're founding with that attitude
        11y ago
rileymat2 11y ago
Perhaps you are not subsidizing them, but they are betting that one of them will be a success gaining them more profit in the end than this grant? Maybe this is a marketing expense.
chris_wot 11y ago
Wow, I find this rather extraordinary. Have your fees increased as a direct result of this gesture?
harryh 11y ago
They aren't giving credits to YC companies out of charity. They're doing it because they (probably correctly) think that the gains from this marketing spend will be outweighed by future profits. So you aren't subsidizing anyone.
- nitrogen 11y ago
  Technically, all advertising and promotion is subsidized by the paying customers of the company. So increased promotional expenses still result in increased prices for customers, or reduced margin for the company (excepting an influx of customers that allows significant cost reduction due to scale). But that's not always a bad thing.
ygjb 11y ago
Poor muffin. I too don't have the same opportunities as other folks, but it never stopped me running hard and achieving my goals ;) Don't waste your time and energy worrying about what other folks have, and focus the same into achieving your goals and getting some credits won't make that big of a difference....
- smokeyj 11y ago
  Don't pat your back too hard. Someone is subsidizing this - and it's most likely the customers that have a choice where they spend their hard earned dollars. Point being, there will likely be a better hosting package somewhere else (for non YC-ordained members of the startup community).
BinaryIdiot 11y ago
Reading the replies it seems you're getting a mixture of "I agree / understand" and "It's a business decision you feel wrong". Humans have weird triggers for emotions. Seeing something that benefits a group that you are not a part of but fairly equivalent to is a typical trigger, even if it does make sense to a degree. When I first saw this, as a non-YC-member, I felt pretty similar. I'm sure it's simply a business relationship in which either digital ocean is making money due to the advertising or YC is subsidizing it (though the latter is unlikely). So it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint but I think your feelings are equally valid. I would love to see digital ocean partner with other incubators or provider offers to any start-ups in general.
- andrewsomething 11y ago
  Great response! I can totally understand the feeling. We do work with a number of other incubators. DO itself is an alumni of TechStars. We have some stuff in the works with 500 Startups. We're definitely interested in working with other incubators as well. If you're involved with one, feel free to reach out to me at asb@digitalocean.com I'll make sure to get you to the right folks at DO. If you're not in an incubator, check out the link I shared below. There's still a lot our customer success team can do for you.
urda 11y ago
I've only seen more coverage of "avoid these startup groups, but use YC instead!" It can set a very dangerous precedent. YC isn't the end all of all, but it's starting to feel like it is becoming a mandatory part of the startup process (which is NOT ok).
nxzero 11y ago
How's YC getting a deal for the companies it's funding a slight to all startups? It's not like YC is free or that it's easy to get into YC. DO is doing the deal because they're hoping to cash out servicing a hyper growth company; which in turn would subsidize small fish using DO. Understand the feeling, just don't see the logic.
- voidlogic 11y ago
  I read the OPs concern as saying: as a non-YC DO customer, he doesn't like the fact he is providing revenue to a company that is giving services away (the same he pays for) to a group of companies that doesn't include his, and may even be a competitor.
whalesalad 11y ago
You've been paying them for hosting prior to this announcement. You apparently find the cost to be reasonable enough for the value they deliver. What's changed? Customer satisfaction withstanding, they can do whatever they want with their profits.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  What's changed is that in the perception of the commenter he's not on a level playingfield to begin with and this announcement tilted it even further away from level. So in order to do what's in his power to re-adjust he takes away some of those profits.
  - rorykoehler 11y ago
    Anyone not living and working in SV is not on a level playing field when it comes to startups. Either the service you use does it's job at a price that fits your cost structure or it doesn't.
gnarbarian 11y ago
Get mad then use your anger to code up a storm and surpass those spoiled brats.
kriro 11y ago
I'd look at it this way: 1) If you feel you're funding direct competitors...we're talking about startups. More of a validation of your base idea than a real edge for the competition. It's also not horrible to know your direct competition uses the same infrastructure. 2) Otherwise...this lets DO add more customers from the group of startups, which you're in, and thus gain more experience with their typical problems and needs which should benefit you (ever so slightly).
- onion2k 11y ago
  If you feel you're funding direct competitors...we're talking about startups. More of a validation of your base idea than a real edge for the competition. There are startups and there are YC startups. If you've got in to YC you've probably already proven your idea and you're generating revenue - YC is about accelerating rather that actually starting after all. If you're directly competing with a YC company then this does put you at a disadvantage, especially if you're in a space where computational power is a big part of your burn. Mind you, hasn't AWS given huge blocks of credits away to startups in lots of accelerators since forever? This isn't really a new problem for competitors.
lifesunfair 11y ago
Life's unfair bro. Grow a pair.
martin-adams 11y ago
The way I see it, I don't think I am subsidising these other startups since DO raised $83m last year [1] Secondly, with the high attention of YC companies using the service, this may help push innovation forward for things like improved firewall and private networking, managed databases for backup and redundancy and an S3 comparable file store (thus no transfer costs). If giving $250K to YC companies to create that demand for them to implement it, I'm all for it. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/08/digitalocean-raises-83m-series-b-round-led-by-access-industries/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/08/digitalocean-raises-83m-ser...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

by bmh_ca 11y ago

assocguilt 11y ago

Odd use of the word ecumenical.

shoyer 11y ago
I'm pretty sure the OP intended to write "economical" instead.
- ossama 11y ago
  More likely "equitable"
- geofft 11y ago
  No, I think "ecumenical" in the less common sense of the word, "worldwide or general in extent, influence, or application," makes perfect sense here. Or even in the usual sense of the word, if you're making an analogy between startup accelerators and Christian denominations. It's a pretty good analogy, since despite small differences in belief and large differences in culture and practice, everyone has roughly the same goals. A Lutheran might feel particularly slighted at a program that gives free choral music to Anglicans, because they sing all the same anthems and none of the differences are relevant, and so restricting the free stuff to Anglicans rubs in the difference for no good reason. This is quite different from the way a Buddhist or an atheist would feel slighted by not getting that free music. Given that OP claimed the feeling will pass, I don't think "economical" quite makes sense.
- bmh_ca 11y ago
  Geoff's comment nails the intent.
dllthomas 11y ago
Unusual but not incorrect. My understanding has it that the religious sense is a (very common) specialization of a more general meaning along the lines of "treating different groups the same".

bnchrch 11y ago

I don't understand why you would feel slighted, this is just a business partnership (albiet a large one) and no different than when Microsoft offered $500, 000 in azure credits to YC companies. There are certain perks to joining an organization of entrepreneurs and developers, this is one of them.

throwaway13337 11y ago
Microsoft also offers 27k of azure service to non-YC startups so it's not like you're left out in the cold if you're not a part of the club. https://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/about/default.aspx https://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/about/default.aspx
- dikaiosune 11y ago
  I think that's fair to point out, but it's an order of magnitude difference (especially in the context of the other comp'd services YC companies get in their first year or two).
kuschku 11y ago
Think about it this way: You’re a startup, and a significant percentage of the money you sent is directly given to your competitors. Which is what’s happening here. If you’re a non-YC startup using DO, you’re directly financing your competitors.

nhangen 11y ago

Absolutely. This reads like a big fuck you to anyone that chooses to go it alone and/or doesn't want to submit themselves to the YC complex.

paulddraper 11y ago
You're exaggerating.
rickycook 11y ago
also (and this applies to a very large number of other services too) this excludes anyone not willing to reside in Silicon Valley for their business

pbreit 11y ago

I'd feel even better about Digital Ocean. This ensures that it will stick around and I'm guessing the YC folks are a demanding bunch and so will will DO forward.

Scarbutt 11y ago

Its just business as usual, this gives them more exposure and good PR, with the financial gain this might bring to them you will enjoy a better (and maybe even cheaper) service in the future, looks like a win-win situation to me.

andrewsomething 11y ago

We're always looking for ways to help startups get up and running on our platform. If you're not a YC company, reach out to our customer success team. They can help you get started. If you're already a DO user, they can help you scale up. https://www.digitalocean.com/company/contact/sales/ https://www.digitalocean.com/company/contact/sales/

nhangen 11y ago
nobody wants to talk to a sales guy...
- vecter 11y ago
  Really? If I want to discuss pricing, a sales guy is exactly who I want to talk to.
  - nhangen 11y ago
    As a founder, I've got sales guys cold calling and emailing me all day long. They are usually new, and completely disconnected from the realities that a startup founder faces. They also generally lack the authority to make decisions, so the call always ends up as a waste of time.
    - vecter 11y ago
      Who do you want to talk to then? Unless you're a big customer, the founder or VP of the company selling to you is probably (understandably) too busy to talk to you. If they really want your business, the sales person will escalate it appropriately. If they don't want it bad enough ... they won't get it.
    - schrodinger 11y ago
      Don't wanna work for the company you're founding with that attitude
      - 11y ago

rileymat2 11y ago

Perhaps you are not subsidizing them, but they are betting that one of them will be a success gaining them more profit in the end than this grant? Maybe this is a marketing expense.

chris_wot 11y ago

Wow, I find this rather extraordinary. Have your fees increased as a direct result of this gesture?

harryh 11y ago

They aren't giving credits to YC companies out of charity. They're doing it because they (probably correctly) think that the gains from this marketing spend will be outweighed by future profits. So you aren't subsidizing anyone.

nitrogen 11y ago
Technically, all advertising and promotion is subsidized by the paying customers of the company. So increased promotional expenses still result in increased prices for customers, or reduced margin for the company (excepting an influx of customers that allows significant cost reduction due to scale). But that's not always a bad thing.

ygjb 11y ago

Poor muffin. I too don't have the same opportunities as other folks, but it never stopped me running hard and achieving my goals ;) Don't waste your time and energy worrying about what other folks have, and focus the same into achieving your goals and getting some credits won't make that big of a difference....

smokeyj 11y ago
Don't pat your back too hard. Someone is subsidizing this - and it's most likely the customers that have a choice where they spend their hard earned dollars. Point being, there will likely be a better hosting package somewhere else (for non YC-ordained members of the startup community).

BinaryIdiot 11y ago

Reading the replies it seems you're getting a mixture of "I agree / understand" and "It's a business decision you feel wrong". Humans have weird triggers for emotions. Seeing something that benefits a group that you are not a part of but fairly equivalent to is a typical trigger, even if it does make sense to a degree. When I first saw this, as a non-YC-member, I felt pretty similar. I'm sure it's simply a business relationship in which either digital ocean is making money due to the advertising or YC is subsidizing it (though the latter is unlikely). So it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint but I think your feelings are equally valid. I would love to see digital ocean partner with other incubators or provider offers to any start-ups in general.

andrewsomething 11y ago
Great response! I can totally understand the feeling. We do work with a number of other incubators. DO itself is an alumni of TechStars. We have some stuff in the works with 500 Startups. We're definitely interested in working with other incubators as well. If you're involved with one, feel free to reach out to me at asb@digitalocean.com I'll make sure to get you to the right folks at DO. If you're not in an incubator, check out the link I shared below. There's still a lot our customer success team can do for you.

urda 11y ago

I've only seen more coverage of "avoid these startup groups, but use YC instead!" It can set a very dangerous precedent. YC isn't the end all of all, but it's starting to feel like it is becoming a mandatory part of the startup process (which is NOT ok).

nxzero 11y ago

How's YC getting a deal for the companies it's funding a slight to all startups? It's not like YC is free or that it's easy to get into YC. DO is doing the deal because they're hoping to cash out servicing a hyper growth company; which in turn would subsidize small fish using DO. Understand the feeling, just don't see the logic.

voidlogic 11y ago
I read the OPs concern as saying: as a non-YC DO customer, he doesn't like the fact he is providing revenue to a company that is giving services away (the same he pays for) to a group of companies that doesn't include his, and may even be a competitor.

whalesalad 11y ago

You've been paying them for hosting prior to this announcement. You apparently find the cost to be reasonable enough for the value they deliver. What's changed? Customer satisfaction withstanding, they can do whatever they want with their profits.

jacquesm 11y ago
What's changed is that in the perception of the commenter he's not on a level playingfield to begin with and this announcement tilted it even further away from level. So in order to do what's in his power to re-adjust he takes away some of those profits.
- rorykoehler 11y ago
  Anyone not living and working in SV is not on a level playing field when it comes to startups. Either the service you use does it's job at a price that fits your cost structure or it doesn't.

gnarbarian 11y ago

Get mad then use your anger to code up a storm and surpass those spoiled brats.

kriro 11y ago

I'd look at it this way: 1) If you feel you're funding direct competitors...we're talking about startups. More of a validation of your base idea than a real edge for the competition. It's also not horrible to know your direct competition uses the same infrastructure. 2) Otherwise...this lets DO add more customers from the group of startups, which you're in, and thus gain more experience with their typical problems and needs which should benefit you (ever so slightly).

onion2k 11y ago
If you feel you're funding direct competitors...we're talking about startups. More of a validation of your base idea than a real edge for the competition. There are startups and there are YC startups. If you've got in to YC you've probably already proven your idea and you're generating revenue - YC is about accelerating rather that actually starting after all. If you're directly competing with a YC company then this does put you at a disadvantage, especially if you're in a space where computational power is a big part of your burn. Mind you, hasn't AWS given huge blocks of credits away to startups in lots of accelerators since forever? This isn't really a new problem for competitors.

lifesunfair 11y ago

Life's unfair bro. Grow a pair.

martin-adams 11y ago

The way I see it, I don't think I am subsidising these other startups since DO raised $83m last year [1] Secondly, with the high attention of YC companies using the service, this may help push innovation forward for things like improved firewall and private networking, managed databases for backup and redundancy and an S3 comparable file store (thus no transfer costs). If giving $250K to YC companies to create that demand for them to implement it, I'm all for it. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/08/digitalocean-raises-83m-series-b-round-led-by-access-industries/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/08/digitalocean-raises-83m-ser...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]