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> A principled president This is a bit off-topic, but I saw something today I couldn't help but think of when I saw that phrase. Even though Hillary Clinton is

> A principled president This is a bit off-topic, but I saw something today I couldn't help but think of when I saw that phrase. Even though Hillary Clinton is not every president and may be have been too defeatist (or too obedient) when she said this, my "point" is basically, if even going up against hundreds of millions of dollars seems "out of the question", well, what about the really nasty and actually powerful orgs? http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-119082 http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/bernie-sanders-hillary... > They got their meeting at the White House that month, and the two doctors laid out the case for single-payer to the first lady. “She said, ‘You make a convincing case, but is there any force on the face of the earth that could counter the hundreds of millions of the dollars the insurance industry would spend fighting that?’” recalled Himmelstein. “And I said, “How about the president of the United States actually leading the American people?’ and she said, ‘Tell me something real.’ ” A principled population, now that would be something :)

grandalf 11y ago
This is a valid point. I think the most reasonable way to understand public apathy is through the lens of Chomsky's "manufacturing consent". We all consent to whatever government policies we don't oppose, and powerful interests tend to have a large role in shaping the media message about what matters and what is worth being complacent about vs outraged. We should all regard all institutions with some degree of skepticism, but unfortunately a lot of information slips through the cracks due to our limits on attention and information processing. The net effect is that most Americans accept at face value whatever explanation our leaders offer. It's just not necessarily going to benefit the average person to dig deeper looking for truth, and it's far more pleasant to just get on board with the powerful interest group and feel the psychological benefits of group cohesion and being on the "winning" side.
- marincounty 11y ago
  I don't think the average American cares unough to dig deeper for the truth. I politely used the word care; I hope it's not another word?
  - PavlovsCat 11y ago
    Maybe it's the way someone who never breathed fresh air doesn't miss fresh air. That is, if we knew what we're missing, even if it's just in relation to "how things could be", we'd care more, I think. And we really are missing out. We have the know-how, technology and morally, for everybody on the world to have a great and dignified life. We just don't have the culture. I often wish I had been born as some kind of genius film maker or author, because I think creating a realistic "utopian" (read: less dystopian) world which is a direct continuation of a realistic rendition of reality could do a lot to inspire us, and overcome our short attention spans and short-sightedness a bit. Then again, I don't know any examples of art really changing much, so I'm not sure. But I do wish there were more such movies and books.. we know about the problems, we need solutions, or at least constructive steps to take, and bigger perspectives than this year or decade. "Stuff is much worse than you think, but I don't have any good ideas how to fix it" is simply too hard a sell. We need to extend helping hands and encouragement, and be good examples. That is banal and easy to say I know, in the end organizing is important, too. I don't mean this in an Alex Jones way, but we need to help each other to wake up. Which reminds me of a slashdot comment I kept around because it struck a chord: > It takes foolhardy vigilance to combat the complacency that leads to a slow lead poison death. We have to bark at each other and raise the dander [danger?] level so that we don't fall asleep at the wheel. http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3016847&cid=40836325 http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3016847&cid=4083632...
    - 9erdelta 11y ago
      I like your comment about fresh air. I can't prove it or point to any source, but I firmly believe that as a civilization, we are living in poverty compared to what we could be living in if only we had some "fresh air".
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Even though Hillary Clinton is not every president Or, as yet (and possibly ever) any president...
- PavlovsCat 11y ago
  Whoops yeah, I worded that badly :)
tamana 11y ago
The President can get hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding and on-line contributions to promote their agenda.

grandalf 11y ago

This is a valid point. I think the most reasonable way to understand public apathy is through the lens of Chomsky's "manufacturing consent". We all consent to whatever government policies we don't oppose, and powerful interests tend to have a large role in shaping the media message about what matters and what is worth being complacent about vs outraged. We should all regard all institutions with some degree of skepticism, but unfortunately a lot of information slips through the cracks due to our limits on attention and information processing. The net effect is that most Americans accept at face value whatever explanation our leaders offer. It's just not necessarily going to benefit the average person to dig deeper looking for truth, and it's far more pleasant to just get on board with the powerful interest group and feel the psychological benefits of group cohesion and being on the "winning" side.

marincounty 11y ago
I don't think the average American cares unough to dig deeper for the truth. I politely used the word care; I hope it's not another word?
- PavlovsCat 11y ago
  Maybe it's the way someone who never breathed fresh air doesn't miss fresh air. That is, if we knew what we're missing, even if it's just in relation to "how things could be", we'd care more, I think. And we really are missing out. We have the know-how, technology and morally, for everybody on the world to have a great and dignified life. We just don't have the culture. I often wish I had been born as some kind of genius film maker or author, because I think creating a realistic "utopian" (read: less dystopian) world which is a direct continuation of a realistic rendition of reality could do a lot to inspire us, and overcome our short attention spans and short-sightedness a bit. Then again, I don't know any examples of art really changing much, so I'm not sure. But I do wish there were more such movies and books.. we know about the problems, we need solutions, or at least constructive steps to take, and bigger perspectives than this year or decade. "Stuff is much worse than you think, but I don't have any good ideas how to fix it" is simply too hard a sell. We need to extend helping hands and encouragement, and be good examples. That is banal and easy to say I know, in the end organizing is important, too. I don't mean this in an Alex Jones way, but we need to help each other to wake up. Which reminds me of a slashdot comment I kept around because it struck a chord: > It takes foolhardy vigilance to combat the complacency that leads to a slow lead poison death. We have to bark at each other and raise the dander [danger?] level so that we don't fall asleep at the wheel. http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3016847&cid=40836325 http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3016847&cid=4083632...
  - 9erdelta 11y ago
    I like your comment about fresh air. I can't prove it or point to any source, but I firmly believe that as a civilization, we are living in poverty compared to what we could be living in if only we had some "fresh air".

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Even though Hillary Clinton is not every president Or, as yet (and possibly ever) any president...

PavlovsCat 11y ago
Whoops yeah, I worded that badly :)

tamana 11y ago

The President can get hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding and on-line contributions to promote their agenda.