5 ms·

> I see this as propaganda to push the concept that Yahoo has negative value How is it propaganda? YHOO has a current Market Cap of 27.7B with assets includin

by mythz 11y ago

> I see this as propaganda to push the concept that Yahoo has negative value How is it propaganda? YHOO has a current Market Cap of 27.7B with assets including a 25B stake in Alibaba, 8B Stake in Yahoo Japan and ~4B cash. If it wasn't for tax implications of selling their investments, Yahoo's core business clearly holds a negative value. Accounting for tax implications puts it around 0-2B. > There is more to a corporation that just shareholder value Shareholders are who collectively owns a Corporation of which maximizing Share Holder value is its primary purpose and what the board gets elected to do.

kaonashi 11y ago
> Share Holder value is its primary purpose No, it isn't. Corporations are given a public charter which declares its purpose. Increasing share-holder value is a nice side-effect at most.
- mythz 11y ago
  > Increasing share-holder value is a nice side-effect at most. Rubbish, the board works for its shareholders who wants ROI on their investment. Who do you think is forcing their expenses / 15% workforce cut? and putting pressure on Marissa to waste her time/focus on re-structuring Yahoo to maximize their Alibaba investment? Shareholders are the primary benefactors.
  - gerbilly 11y ago
    > Rubbish, the board works for its shareholders who wants ROI on their investment. Sure, but honestly most shareholders would prefer not to take a share of the profits. Dividends are so passé. Today's modern investor wants growth, and the easiest way to get growth, without all the hard work , is to find another investor willing to believe in your portrayal of the value of the stock you hold[1], and to convince them to buy it from you. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
- hluska 11y ago
  "The Board's goals are generally to build long-term value for the Company's stockholders and to assure the vitality of the Company for its customers, employees and the other individuals and organizations that depend on the Company." Source - Yahoo Corporate Governance Guidelines - https://investor.yahoo.net/documentdisplay.cfm?DocumentID=11713 https://investor.yahoo.net/documentdisplay.cfm?DocumentID=11...
- gerbilly 11y ago
  Shareholder primacy is a recent development in capitalism , and a negative one in my opinion. [1] Since we've chosen to give so much power to corporations over areas of our lives, they need to be good citizens more than ever. It's quaint, but corporations are granted a charter by the state, and the people have delegated that power to the state. So it's the people who decided what a corporation is and its rights and responsibilities. Now of course we've been lulled into thinking it has to be the way it is now, and that the current state of affairs is 'natural', but it doesn't have to stay that way. Maybe as more and more industries are disrupted and automated away and people lose jobs, we might be forced to rethink the current arrangement. [1]: http://www.europeanfinancialreview.com/?p=883 http://www.europeanfinancialreview.com/?p=883
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > Corporations are given a public charter which declares its purpose. Which, for virtually (but not quite entirely) all corporations that aren't nonprofits, is basically "do anything legal", or "do anything legal to advance the interests of the shareholders." E.g., for Yahoo!, its purpose is "to engage in any lawful act or activity for which corporations may be organized under the General Corporation Law of Delaware". [0] If corporate law required purposes in charters/certificates of incorporation to be meaningful and specific, and charters/certificates were denied or revoked that failed to be, the purpose in a charter might actually be worth referring to. [0] http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/YHOO/1450374771x0x28517/FCD100A1-B2A7-4F03-8B1C-A57489A26225/CG_Incorporation.pdf http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/YHOO/1450374771x0x285...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
henrikschroder 11y ago
Core Yahoo has a negative value even if you add the sum of the parts post-tax. $27.9bn (market cap) - $17.5bn (Alibaba) - $5.9bn (Y! Japan) - $5bn (net cash) = -$0.5bn (core Yahoo)
profeta 11y ago
Step 1: go find out who makes out those valuation numbers. Step 2: see how people on step 1's answer make money.
- gerbilly 11y ago
  Yeah exactly, wish I could vote this up.
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >who makes out those valuation numbers. Uh...what? No one is making up those numbers. It's a financial metric.
  - phamilton 11y ago
    Earnings is a metric. Price is not. Price is a collective agreement by the market. That's why p/e ratios aren't static. They are the result of perception and perception is altered by influence.
st3v3r 11y ago
Maximizing shareholder value is NOT a company's primary purpose. Stop spreading this lie. And even if it were, there are many ways to do that. And many of them do not involve short-sightedness with respect to the business. If you're unhappy with how the business is being run, then sell your shares and get out. Quit bitching that they're not sacrificing the long term to give you an additional point.
- mythz 11y ago
  No that's not how it works, if shareholders are unhappy (the ones that are still left) will just elect a new CEO and replace board members who they have more confidence in being able to meet their objectives. Yahoo as a company wants to attract investment, they'll never say for any Shareholders who want it to make money should get out - they're the ones who work for Shareholders not the other way round. Telling Shareholders and potential investors "we're not here to increase revenue/profits" so GTFO - will get investors to do exactly that, further decreasing the value of the company.
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >Maximizing shareholder value is NOT a company's primary purpose. Stop spreading this lie. The lie is when people say a corporation's purpose is to maximize profit, which it isn't. The purpose of the corporation is to maximize the value to ownership, be that monetary or some other measure.
dikdik 11y ago
Shareholder value theory is just an excuse to act immorally and on short term-grounds. Over the long-term the pump and dump schemes do not create shareholder value, only short term bumps. Here's a decent article for thought: How to really make America great again: Get rid of 'the dumbest idea in the world.' http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/31/1476239/-How-to-really-make-America-great-again-Get-rid-of-the-dumbest-idea-in-the-world http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/31/1476239/-How-to-re...

by mythz 11y ago

kaonashi 11y ago

> Share Holder value is its primary purpose No, it isn't. Corporations are given a public charter which declares its purpose. Increasing share-holder value is a nice side-effect at most.

mythz 11y ago
> Increasing share-holder value is a nice side-effect at most. Rubbish, the board works for its shareholders who wants ROI on their investment. Who do you think is forcing their expenses / 15% workforce cut? and putting pressure on Marissa to waste her time/focus on re-structuring Yahoo to maximize their Alibaba investment? Shareholders are the primary benefactors.
- gerbilly 11y ago
  > Rubbish, the board works for its shareholders who wants ROI on their investment. Sure, but honestly most shareholders would prefer not to take a share of the profits. Dividends are so passé. Today's modern investor wants growth, and the easiest way to get growth, without all the hard work , is to find another investor willing to believe in your portrayal of the value of the stock you hold[1], and to convince them to buy it from you. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
hluska 11y ago
"The Board's goals are generally to build long-term value for the Company's stockholders and to assure the vitality of the Company for its customers, employees and the other individuals and organizations that depend on the Company." Source - Yahoo Corporate Governance Guidelines - https://investor.yahoo.net/documentdisplay.cfm?DocumentID=11713 https://investor.yahoo.net/documentdisplay.cfm?DocumentID=11...
gerbilly 11y ago
Shareholder primacy is a recent development in capitalism , and a negative one in my opinion. [1] Since we've chosen to give so much power to corporations over areas of our lives, they need to be good citizens more than ever. It's quaint, but corporations are granted a charter by the state, and the people have delegated that power to the state. So it's the people who decided what a corporation is and its rights and responsibilities. Now of course we've been lulled into thinking it has to be the way it is now, and that the current state of affairs is 'natural', but it doesn't have to stay that way. Maybe as more and more industries are disrupted and automated away and people lose jobs, we might be forced to rethink the current arrangement. [1]: http://www.europeanfinancialreview.com/?p=883 http://www.europeanfinancialreview.com/?p=883
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Corporations are given a public charter which declares its purpose. Which, for virtually (but not quite entirely) all corporations that aren't nonprofits, is basically "do anything legal", or "do anything legal to advance the interests of the shareholders." E.g., for Yahoo!, its purpose is "to engage in any lawful act or activity for which corporations may be organized under the General Corporation Law of Delaware". [0] If corporate law required purposes in charters/certificates of incorporation to be meaningful and specific, and charters/certificates were denied or revoked that failed to be, the purpose in a charter might actually be worth referring to. [0] http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/YHOO/1450374771x0x28517/FCD100A1-B2A7-4F03-8B1C-A57489A26225/CG_Incorporation.pdf http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/YHOO/1450374771x0x285...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

henrikschroder 11y ago

Core Yahoo has a negative value even if you add the sum of the parts post-tax. $27.9bn (market cap) - $17.5bn (Alibaba) - $5.9bn (Y! Japan) - $5bn (net cash) = -$0.5bn (core Yahoo)

profeta 11y ago

Step 1: go find out who makes out those valuation numbers. Step 2: see how people on step 1's answer make money.

gerbilly 11y ago
Yeah exactly, wish I could vote this up.
forgetsusername 11y ago
>who makes out those valuation numbers. Uh...what? No one is making up those numbers. It's a financial metric.
- phamilton 11y ago
  Earnings is a metric. Price is not. Price is a collective agreement by the market. That's why p/e ratios aren't static. They are the result of perception and perception is altered by influence.

st3v3r 11y ago

Maximizing shareholder value is NOT a company's primary purpose. Stop spreading this lie. And even if it were, there are many ways to do that. And many of them do not involve short-sightedness with respect to the business. If you're unhappy with how the business is being run, then sell your shares and get out. Quit bitching that they're not sacrificing the long term to give you an additional point.

mythz 11y ago
No that's not how it works, if shareholders are unhappy (the ones that are still left) will just elect a new CEO and replace board members who they have more confidence in being able to meet their objectives. Yahoo as a company wants to attract investment, they'll never say for any Shareholders who want it to make money should get out - they're the ones who work for Shareholders not the other way round. Telling Shareholders and potential investors "we're not here to increase revenue/profits" so GTFO - will get investors to do exactly that, further decreasing the value of the company.
forgetsusername 11y ago
>Maximizing shareholder value is NOT a company's primary purpose. Stop spreading this lie. The lie is when people say a corporation's purpose is to maximize profit, which it isn't. The purpose of the corporation is to maximize the value to ownership, be that monetary or some other measure.

dikdik 11y ago

Shareholder value theory is just an excuse to act immorally and on short term-grounds. Over the long-term the pump and dump schemes do not create shareholder value, only short term bumps. Here's a decent article for thought: How to really make America great again: Get rid of 'the dumbest idea in the world.' http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/31/1476239/-How-to-really-make-America-great-again-Get-rid-of-the-dumbest-idea-in-the-world http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/31/1476239/-How-to-re...