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U of Toronto Acquires the World's Largest Collection of Chinese Restaurant Menus

56 points by Thevet 11y ago

GurnB 11y ago
Now this would be an interesting collection of data to analyze. Is the #7 lunch special Beef with Broccoli in more than 90% of the menu's?
- mc32 11y ago
  It depends, in china pork and chicken are more popular than beef which is more on par with lamb. And they use less broccoli and more cabbage family veggies.
  - GavinMcG 11y ago
    It's clear what you meant, of course – but it's an interesting tidbit that broccoli is a "cabbage-family" vegetable! In fact, broccoli is the same species as cabbage, which are both cultivars of Brassica oleracea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassicaceae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassicaceae
    - mc32 11y ago
      Gah, you're right I'd forgotten. I meant the cuisine tends to the more leafy versions of the cruciferous veggies like cabbage, "white vegetable", and some others.
  - bpicolo 11y ago
    Really, gai-lan is tastier anyways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai-lan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai-lan
zacwest 11y ago
"The Search for General Tso" on Netflix http://www.netflix.com/title/80011853?s=i http://www.netflix.com/title/80011853?s=i dives into this collection a bit. Really fun documentary, too.
- intopieces 11y ago
  One of the producers and primary contributors to that documentary, Jennifer 8. Lee, presented a proposal at the most recent Unicode meeting to include dumpling, chopsticks, fortune cookie and chinese takeout menu into Unicode's emoji. Very well done. She did a TED talk in 08 https://www.ted.com/talks/jennifer_8_lee_looks_for_general_tso https://www.ted.com/talks/jennifer_8_lee_looks_for_general_t...
bozo1979 11y ago
I've always wondered why beef with black bean sauce is common to see on menus in Canada but not in the US. Also, chow fun seems to be served at particular restaurants.
- horsecaptin 11y ago
  And Chow Sadness in others.
- schwap 11y ago
  Other particularities I've noticed are the lack of Orange Chicken in Canada and the lack of Ginger Beef in the states (they don't know what they're missing).
  - danielki 11y ago
    From my understanding, this is because neither of these are actually true "Chinese" dishes,. Ginger Beef was "invented" by a Chinese immigrant in Calgary in the 1970s [0], whereas the westernized Orange Chicken is actually a variation on General Tso's chicken, which was invented/popularized in New York in the early 1970s [1]. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20090330125905/http://cbc.ca/news/background/chinese-newyear/calgary.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090330125905/http://cbc.ca/new... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Tso%27s_chicken#Name_and_origins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Tso%27s_chicken#Name_a...
p4wnc6 11y ago
They plan to finally, once and for all, settle the timeless question of if you can order beef, chicken, or tofu as the protein, and if you can order broccoli, mushrooms, or peppers as the vegetable, and if you can order white rice, brown rice, or noodles as the starch, then how many total dishes can you order?
- api_or_ipa 11y ago
  27 unless you allow deletions, then it's 4^3-1 since a plate with no food is not particularly satisfying. The real question emerges once you consider quantities & lesser adjuncts like ginger, soy sauce, mushrooms, etc. It's surprising how fast this stuff can add up.
zardo 11y ago
I was kind of thinking it was the CS department collecting them to build SweetNSourNet.
slantyyz 11y ago
Interesting. My dad owned (second owner) one of the first "fake Chinese" take out restaurants in Toronto - opened in 1955. He used to have a collection of all the old menus from his restaurant. At one point in the late 80s, I did some updates for him in Quark Xpress on a Mac SE. It has changed hands a couple of times since my Dad retired in the early 90s though. I just dug up their current menu [1], and it looks like they're still using a variant of the menu that dates back to the 70s. While I miss the free food, I sure don't miss working there... [1] http://www.chopstickfoods.ca/en/menu.html http://www.chopstickfoods.ca/en/menu.html
- antoniuschan99 11y ago
  I live in Toronto. Is this place worthy of checking out?
  - slantyyz 11y ago
    I haven't eaten there in over 20 years as I live out of the way, so to be honest, I have no idea.
addled 11y ago
I'm tempted to start doing this for the places in my town. Cashew Chicken is a big deal here.
superchink 11y ago
The comment about the first image [1] was confusing to me: "The text is a mix of English words written in a style reminiscent of Cantonese." Does the author even have a clue what he's saying? [1] http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/2016/02/02/u-of-t-acquires-the-worlds-largest-collection-of-chinese-restaurant-menus/webold-menujpg.jpg.size.xxlarge.promo.jpg http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/2016/02/...
- DanAndersen 11y ago
  The sentence preceding the one you quoted should explain it. The point is that there is a particular font style used in "mock Chinese" imagery that makes English words look like they are written with the sort of sharp strokes that Western audiences saw as being like Chinese characters.

56 points by Thevet 11y ago

GurnB 11y ago

Now this would be an interesting collection of data to analyze. Is the #7 lunch special Beef with Broccoli in more than 90% of the menu's?

mc32 11y ago
It depends, in china pork and chicken are more popular than beef which is more on par with lamb. And they use less broccoli and more cabbage family veggies.
- GavinMcG 11y ago
  It's clear what you meant, of course – but it's an interesting tidbit that broccoli is a "cabbage-family" vegetable! In fact, broccoli is the same species as cabbage, which are both cultivars of Brassica oleracea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassicaceae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassicaceae
  - mc32 11y ago
    Gah, you're right I'd forgotten. I meant the cuisine tends to the more leafy versions of the cruciferous veggies like cabbage, "white vegetable", and some others.
- bpicolo 11y ago
  Really, gai-lan is tastier anyways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai-lan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai-lan

zacwest 11y ago

"The Search for General Tso" on Netflix http://www.netflix.com/title/80011853?s=i http://www.netflix.com/title/80011853?s=i dives into this collection a bit. Really fun documentary, too.

intopieces 11y ago
One of the producers and primary contributors to that documentary, Jennifer 8. Lee, presented a proposal at the most recent Unicode meeting to include dumpling, chopsticks, fortune cookie and chinese takeout menu into Unicode's emoji. Very well done. She did a TED talk in 08 https://www.ted.com/talks/jennifer_8_lee_looks_for_general_tso https://www.ted.com/talks/jennifer_8_lee_looks_for_general_t...

bozo1979 11y ago

I've always wondered why beef with black bean sauce is common to see on menus in Canada but not in the US. Also, chow fun seems to be served at particular restaurants.

horsecaptin 11y ago
And Chow Sadness in others.
schwap 11y ago
Other particularities I've noticed are the lack of Orange Chicken in Canada and the lack of Ginger Beef in the states (they don't know what they're missing).
- danielki 11y ago
  From my understanding, this is because neither of these are actually true "Chinese" dishes,. Ginger Beef was "invented" by a Chinese immigrant in Calgary in the 1970s [0], whereas the westernized Orange Chicken is actually a variation on General Tso's chicken, which was invented/popularized in New York in the early 1970s [1]. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20090330125905/http://cbc.ca/news/background/chinese-newyear/calgary.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090330125905/http://cbc.ca/new... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Tso%27s_chicken#Name_and_origins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Tso%27s_chicken#Name_a...

p4wnc6 11y ago

They plan to finally, once and for all, settle the timeless question of if you can order beef, chicken, or tofu as the protein, and if you can order broccoli, mushrooms, or peppers as the vegetable, and if you can order white rice, brown rice, or noodles as the starch, then how many total dishes can you order?

api_or_ipa 11y ago
27 unless you allow deletions, then it's 4^3-1 since a plate with no food is not particularly satisfying. The real question emerges once you consider quantities & lesser adjuncts like ginger, soy sauce, mushrooms, etc. It's surprising how fast this stuff can add up.

zardo 11y ago

I was kind of thinking it was the CS department collecting them to build SweetNSourNet.

slantyyz 11y ago

Interesting. My dad owned (second owner) one of the first "fake Chinese" take out restaurants in Toronto - opened in 1955. He used to have a collection of all the old menus from his restaurant. At one point in the late 80s, I did some updates for him in Quark Xpress on a Mac SE. It has changed hands a couple of times since my Dad retired in the early 90s though. I just dug up their current menu [1], and it looks like they're still using a variant of the menu that dates back to the 70s. While I miss the free food, I sure don't miss working there... [1] http://www.chopstickfoods.ca/en/menu.html http://www.chopstickfoods.ca/en/menu.html

antoniuschan99 11y ago
I live in Toronto. Is this place worthy of checking out?
- slantyyz 11y ago
  I haven't eaten there in over 20 years as I live out of the way, so to be honest, I have no idea.

addled 11y ago

I'm tempted to start doing this for the places in my town. Cashew Chicken is a big deal here.

superchink 11y ago

The comment about the first image [1] was confusing to me: "The text is a mix of English words written in a style reminiscent of Cantonese." Does the author even have a clue what he's saying? [1] http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/2016/02/02/u-of-t-acquires-the-worlds-largest-collection-of-chinese-restaurant-menus/webold-menujpg.jpg.size.xxlarge.promo.jpg http://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/2016/02/...

DanAndersen 11y ago
The sentence preceding the one you quoted should explain it. The point is that there is a particular font style used in "mock Chinese" imagery that makes English words look like they are written with the sort of sharp strokes that Western audiences saw as being like Chinese characters.