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Elon Musk could start an energy company which renders down baby seals and burns the blubber and HN would say its usual thing like 'Actually this is a really sma

Elon Musk could start an energy company which renders down baby seals and burns the blubber and HN would say its usual thing like 'Actually this is a really smart move by Elon' (everyone here seems to be on first-name terms with him). This place would be greatly improved by some perspective. He's built a very cool rocket company, but on HN people take the CTO title at face value and assume he's a genius rocket scientist. He's built a cool car company, and is right to focus on battery technology and solar being better than biofuels etc etc. I admire him a lot, but i think a lot of people project their ideals onto him as a sort of symbol of the primacy of the Valley Way, which they're staking their twenties and thirties on. Whilst taxonomy doesn't really achieve much, I sort of think of him as more Henry Ford than some sort of Tony Stark/Einstein hybrid that is often seen here. Like I said, there's a lot to admire, but he's just a guy still. Petty, tantrums, lots of SpaceXers i know (current and former) talk about how really you have to go to Gwynne Shotwell for some sober leadership and patience when he jumps the shark a bit, and she can speak truth unto power and figure out a way forward. She never gets mentioned from from what one hears in this industry (I'm in it to) she deserves a lot of credit.

dsp1234 11y ago
'Actually this is a really smart move by Elon' (everyone here seems to be on first-name terms with him) Except the majority of the comments so far imply that's it's actually not a good move. Also, no one in the thread has yet mentioned him by first name (there are only 3 occurrences of 'Elon' in this thread with 2 being by full name, and then your hypothetical HN commenter being the only that uses it alone)
- lumisota 11y ago
  let's not let the facts get in the way of a good rant
- DougN7 11y ago
  I don't think the poster is referring to only this post.
romanovcode 11y ago
You could say exactly the same thing about pg
- forgottenpass 11y ago
  ...and that wouldn't be wrong, either. pg's cult of personality is unbearable at times. If someone reads Hackers and Painters and doesn't see that they're getting hustled, they're a fool. Or they see it and are just sycophants, which is even worse in my book.
  - cmnzs 11y ago
    having not read hackers and painters, what's this about getting hustled? it's in my queue, but haven't had the chance to actually read it yet
smcl 11y ago
The familiar/first name thing bothers me more when people refer to "Zuck", like they're old pals who go way back.
- tamana 11y ago
  Zuck is a handy abbreviation
youngtaff 11y ago
Musk has done a lot but the other thing to remember is how much his current businesses actually depend on billion in taxypayer subsidy - http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-2015...
- mcv 11y ago
  That's just because these are technologies that the US government wants to stimulate. Musk is doing an excellent job of that. You'd better be worried about the subsidies received by harmful industries.
- castratikron 11y ago
  Musk's companies are doing the job of the government anyways (developing a space program and technologies that fight global heating). It makes sense that they get government money. I would bet that a dollar of tax money goes farther at SpaceX than it does at NASA, though.
  - jazzyk 11y ago
    Somewhat off-topic, but... Why is sending people into space or making electric cars the job of the government?
    - castratikron 11y ago
      In general I think it's the job of governments to fund research. Research is one of those things where it doesn't make sense to do for a monetary gain.
      - jazzyk 11y ago
        Basic research, yes, I agree. But there is not much basic research in electric cars, the tech has been known for many years now, same for space travel.
tryitnow 11y ago
Yes to this. Musk is brilliant, but more in the Henry Ford sort of way than the Einstein/Tesla sort of way. And that's not to diminish him. To the contrary, we need more visionary industrialists than scientists/engineers. Visionary industrialists can provide jobs and funds to brilliant scientists/engineers.
- tamana 11y ago
  It's just bizarre that people think he actually invented the SpaceX rocket design while on an airplane flight, and he designed the Tesla engine, and no one else could figure out a workable design.
  - tn13 11y ago
    Unfortunately traditionally rocket design and car design fields were not sexy enough. This is the first time a PR savvy guy has invested so much into either companies and he is spending good money to promote himself as some kind of demi God. I am from India and I know how this works in India too. A lot of government officials who are in charge of our space programs, defense programs become "rocket scientists" or get a mention next to "Tesla and Newton" in school textbooks as great scientists while in reality their role was merely administrative. This is not to say they are ordinary and deserve no credit but it depends on how they project themselves on people's mind.
melted 11y ago
Dude has started THREE iconic companies, two of which are in hard-ass, "real engineering" fields that were previously believed to be impenetrable. This is most certainly not a fluke. Henry Ford is nothing to be ashamed of, if you can pull it off. What have you done with your life?
- tn13 11y ago
  Musk is no Henry Ford. Henry ford success is that he built an extremely profitable company that changed the way people travel. I am sure PR investments had less to do with it. Musk is a guy who spends money to promote himself everywhere. Tesla is a rich people's car subsidized by poor people's tax money and the company is not making a profit and is unlikely to make a profit in future either. Even if it does there is nothing groundbreaking about it that Toyota or Ford can not replicate without much efforts. SpaceX is good company but hey it isn't profitable and has not achieved anything major that NASA or Blue Origin could not have given the investments. An hyperloop is going to be a regrettable experience for everyone involved. All three of his companies are piggybacking on government money and have not made our lives better than the alternative.
  - melted 11y ago
    Oh, I didn't know companies had to be profitable from day one, I'm sorry. Maybe you should apply for a position of Musk's business development advisor, clearly you know business side of things better than he does. And Tesla is about a month and a half away from unveiling its "non-rich" people car, and they used Model S revenues to corner the market on lithium ion batteries in the meanwhile. Space X is the only US company that can currently deliver shit to ISS. Soon they will also be the only US company that can deliver people to ISS, and the only company in the world to use a reusable first stage. If that's not an achievement in your book, then I'm not sure what a real achievement would look like to you.

dsp1234 11y ago

'Actually this is a really smart move by Elon' (everyone here seems to be on first-name terms with him) Except the majority of the comments so far imply that's it's actually not a good move. Also, no one in the thread has yet mentioned him by first name (there are only 3 occurrences of 'Elon' in this thread with 2 being by full name, and then your hypothetical HN commenter being the only that uses it alone)

lumisota 11y ago
let's not let the facts get in the way of a good rant
DougN7 11y ago
I don't think the poster is referring to only this post.

romanovcode 11y ago

You could say exactly the same thing about pg

forgottenpass 11y ago
...and that wouldn't be wrong, either. pg's cult of personality is unbearable at times. If someone reads Hackers and Painters and doesn't see that they're getting hustled, they're a fool. Or they see it and are just sycophants, which is even worse in my book.
- cmnzs 11y ago
  having not read hackers and painters, what's this about getting hustled? it's in my queue, but haven't had the chance to actually read it yet

smcl 11y ago

The familiar/first name thing bothers me more when people refer to "Zuck", like they're old pals who go way back.

tamana 11y ago
Zuck is a handy abbreviation

youngtaff 11y ago

Musk has done a lot but the other thing to remember is how much his current businesses actually depend on billion in taxypayer subsidy - http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-2015...

mcv 11y ago
That's just because these are technologies that the US government wants to stimulate. Musk is doing an excellent job of that. You'd better be worried about the subsidies received by harmful industries.
castratikron 11y ago
Musk's companies are doing the job of the government anyways (developing a space program and technologies that fight global heating). It makes sense that they get government money. I would bet that a dollar of tax money goes farther at SpaceX than it does at NASA, though.
- jazzyk 11y ago
  Somewhat off-topic, but... Why is sending people into space or making electric cars the job of the government?
  - castratikron 11y ago
    In general I think it's the job of governments to fund research. Research is one of those things where it doesn't make sense to do for a monetary gain.
    - jazzyk 11y ago
      Basic research, yes, I agree. But there is not much basic research in electric cars, the tech has been known for many years now, same for space travel.

tryitnow 11y ago

Yes to this. Musk is brilliant, but more in the Henry Ford sort of way than the Einstein/Tesla sort of way. And that's not to diminish him. To the contrary, we need more visionary industrialists than scientists/engineers. Visionary industrialists can provide jobs and funds to brilliant scientists/engineers.

tamana 11y ago
It's just bizarre that people think he actually invented the SpaceX rocket design while on an airplane flight, and he designed the Tesla engine, and no one else could figure out a workable design.
- tn13 11y ago
  Unfortunately traditionally rocket design and car design fields were not sexy enough. This is the first time a PR savvy guy has invested so much into either companies and he is spending good money to promote himself as some kind of demi God. I am from India and I know how this works in India too. A lot of government officials who are in charge of our space programs, defense programs become "rocket scientists" or get a mention next to "Tesla and Newton" in school textbooks as great scientists while in reality their role was merely administrative. This is not to say they are ordinary and deserve no credit but it depends on how they project themselves on people's mind.

melted 11y ago

Dude has started THREE iconic companies, two of which are in hard-ass, "real engineering" fields that were previously believed to be impenetrable. This is most certainly not a fluke. Henry Ford is nothing to be ashamed of, if you can pull it off. What have you done with your life?

tn13 11y ago
Musk is no Henry Ford. Henry ford success is that he built an extremely profitable company that changed the way people travel. I am sure PR investments had less to do with it. Musk is a guy who spends money to promote himself everywhere. Tesla is a rich people's car subsidized by poor people's tax money and the company is not making a profit and is unlikely to make a profit in future either. Even if it does there is nothing groundbreaking about it that Toyota or Ford can not replicate without much efforts. SpaceX is good company but hey it isn't profitable and has not achieved anything major that NASA or Blue Origin could not have given the investments. An hyperloop is going to be a regrettable experience for everyone involved. All three of his companies are piggybacking on government money and have not made our lives better than the alternative.
- melted 11y ago
  Oh, I didn't know companies had to be profitable from day one, I'm sorry. Maybe you should apply for a position of Musk's business development advisor, clearly you know business side of things better than he does. And Tesla is about a month and a half away from unveiling its "non-rich" people car, and they used Model S revenues to corner the market on lithium ion batteries in the meanwhile. Space X is the only US company that can currently deliver shit to ISS. Soon they will also be the only US company that can deliver people to ISS, and the only company in the world to use a reusable first stage. If that's not an achievement in your book, then I'm not sure what a real achievement would look like to you.