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Elon Musk personally cancels blogger's Tesla order after 'rude' post
- calibraxis 11y agoFor all the boring blather about Musk I keep bumping into, this is the first that says something good about the guy! Perfectly fine response to that disgustingly entitled venture capitalist.
- vixen99 11y agoPerfectly fine response to a rude customer.
- tempodox 11y agoAs the owner of a business you're entitled to do as you like, but this still makes him look like a pansy.
- masterponomo 11y agoNo car for you!
- throwaway433 11y ago> pansy This is a homophobic term of abuse. Please reconsider attacking people by saying that they are gay. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pansy http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pansy
- camperman 11y agoHe's using the last of the definitions you linked to: "one that is generally unmanly." No homophobia anywhere to be seen.
- riskneural 11y agoI also grew up using pansy as in weakling, as in like the flower. Gay men can be pansies or not. Straight men can be pansies or not. Sometimes I am a pansy. Sometimes I am not.
- ghaff 11y agoThere is a connection to offensive meanings even if it's not strictly a slur. It's the wrong word here anyway--really the opposite of what I would take as the intended meaning. The behavior being argued here certainly isn't weak; those arguing against it are saying that it's overly aggressive.
- pc86 11y agoIf you really felt that strongly about it I don't think you'd create a new account just to say so.
- Shivetya 11y agoSorry, not impressed with the idea the boss can just cancel your order because you are critical of his work. However since he has loads of fanboy cash and karma to burn he gets a pass. Tesla was woefully late in delivery, they made no attempt to apologize as stated, and honestly I don't think they really care. Not a shining example of why the manufacturer direct model is better, if anything it shows people exactly why the dealership model will survive.
- bradleyankrom 11y agoWouldn't the delivery issues have been exacerbated with a dealership middleman involved?
- dsp1234 11y agoLet's say I go to a dealership and preorder a new car, and they let me down (for whatever reason), and I go online and write a bad review of my experience. I'm entitled to do that, and as a private business the dealership is entitled to cancel my preorder (though it's a childish move). At that point, I can just go to another dealer and preorder there, and hopefully get better service. That's just not possible with Tesla. There is no dealership competition with Tesla. If Elon Musk doesn't want to sell you a car, well then you are screwed. Less competition, less customer service, punishment for bad reviews, etc. Now, please understand that I'm a fan of the 'no dealership' model, which is why I'm highly disappointed in his reaction to the bad review. I was hopeful that Tesla would be a good citizen, and show everyone that the 'no dealership' model is a fair one, with no downsides. Unfortunately, this reaction isn't it.
- pil4rin 11y agoBut tesla would still be the manufacturer? How would a dealership benefit in any way? If there were others that didn't use the silly dealership model, you could go to them and buy an electric car on the internet. But tesla is first to market with an electric car at this scale, sure it can be seen as bad press to decline a pre-order, but introducing additional hands in the mix in no way would fix this situation. The problem lies with a lack of competition on this one- If tesla had any real competition, and supply constrains, do you honestly think a pre-order would be canceled?
- dsp1234 11y agoReading the twitter comments at https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/694802955170553861 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/694802955170553861 is super depressing. The mob cheering for blood. It's a bad review of an event that was poorly executed. Turning around and cancelling a preorder is just childish. I honestly hadn't realized that he had such thin skin.
- JumpCrisscross 11y agoMy worry, seeing this, is in what he might feel entitled to do to a current owner who pisses him off.
- forthefuture 11y agoHe can't do illegal things. It's perfectly within his rights to deny someone service beforehand.
- dsp1234 11y agoSince Tesla vehicles have a lot of functionality that is basically SaaS (firmware updates, functionality updates, remote start/unlock via application, etc), if Tesla were to say "You gave us a bad review, we're not going to provide you any updates to your vehicle and you are not allowed to use any of our authorized service centers for repairs", what law would they be breaking?
- tamana 11y agoCheck your contract. When you buy a Tesla, what OTAs are you buying?
- marssaxman 11y ago...and this is why I will never buy a Tesla, no matter how cool they might be.
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- kozukumi 11y agoA rather over the top response IMHO. Not sure why Musk got so worked up about it. Negative reviews happen, just deal with it.
- tempodox 11y agoIn case anybody needed a practical demonstration that power corrupts, here you are.
- setra 11y agoIt a modern fallacy to say that power corrupts. Asymmetrical power, and responsibility corrupts.
- gjm11 11y agoThe saying goes back to 1887, so (whether or not it's a fallacy) it's not all that modern. [EDITED to add:] It occurs to me that the original saying runs as follows: "All power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" -- which is amusing, at least if you're as easily amused as I am, because your objection is precisely that it's only relative power that corrupts :-).
- hyperbovine 11y agoWhat's corrupt about choosing not to sell somebody something of yours? dickish perhaps, but not corrupt.
- edem 11y agoI'm not sure how should I interpret this. I guess that we are missing some context to put this in perspective. Maybe something else happened which is not in the tweet/article what made Musk cancel the order. If there is no missing context then I'm somewhat disappointed by Musk's response. I've read the actual criticism written by the other guy and I wouldn't be offended in Musk's place. There was nothing inherently evil/discrediting/etc in that post.
- ballooney 11y agoElon Musk could start an energy company which renders down baby seals and burns the blubber and HN would say its usual thing like 'Actually this is a really smart move by Elon' (everyone here seems to be on first-name terms with him). This place would be greatly improved by some perspective. He's built a very cool rocket company, but on HN people take the CTO title at face value and assume he's a genius rocket scientist. He's built a cool car company, and is right to focus on battery technology and solar being better than biofuels etc etc. I admire him a lot, but i think a lot of people project their ideals onto him as a sort of symbol of the primacy of the Valley Way, which they're staking their twenties and thirties on. Whilst taxonomy doesn't really achieve much, I sort of think of him as more Henry Ford than some sort of Tony Stark/Einstein hybrid that is often seen here. Like I said, there's a lot to admire, but he's just a guy still. Petty, tantrums, lots of SpaceXers i know (current and former) talk about how really you have to go to Gwynne Shotwell for some sober leadership and patience when he jumps the shark a bit, and she can speak truth unto power and figure out a way forward. She never gets mentioned from from what one hears in this industry (I'm in it to) she deserves a lot of credit.
- dsp1234 11y ago'Actually this is a really smart move by Elon' (everyone here seems to be on first-name terms with him) Except the majority of the comments so far imply that's it's actually not a good move. Also, no one in the thread has yet mentioned him by first name (there are only 3 occurrences of 'Elon' in this thread with 2 being by full name, and then your hypothetical HN commenter being the only that uses it alone)
- romanovcode 11y ago
- logicallee 11y agoAll I got from the reference blog post is "I'm rich and important. I'm not paying for safety here, I'm paying to be rich and important![1] Also, you gave us food, but not billionaire food. I want your attention and a reference to me." [1] the referenced blog post ACTUALLY says that! direct quote : "you shuffle out on stage and start with a slide show — an amateur slide show at that — all about how safe the Model X is.\p Yup, you lead with safety, like that’s why we’re all spending $130,000 or more on this car"
- bossx 11y agoTSLA is down 14% today, coincidence?
- martinko 11y agoYes.
- aaron695 11y agoMusk is cool and doing some amazing shit for the world, so I'm happy for an occasional pass. > Dear @ElonMusk: Thank you for reaching out to me. I heard from our phone conversation that you feel that my post... Did he personally ring and say fuck off to a potential customer/medium blogger? Cause that's a CEO I'd support. Willing to get dirty with customers... I'll give that a shitload more cred than most CEO's who just hand it over to hitmen or cowardly marketing.
- pwdis_password 11y agoRich guy complains about richer guy. Where's the news?
- anjc 11y agoMusk's seemingly consistently-bad attitude will only be 'cool' for so long. I've seen many complaints from disillusioned employees, several reports of tantrums, and several reports from customers who've been fucked over. If I was an investor, I'd very much like to know what his suppliers think of him and how much seller's power they have in that supply chain. As the company grows he may start to become a liability.
- pfortuny 11y agoIf Musk gets irritated by that, then he does have a problem... I mean. A problem.
- argonaut 11y agoThis was a Silicon Valley venture capitalist publicly complaining about Tesla, not a random blogger. So there is almost certainly a different social dynamic at play that we are missing. Silicon Valley is a relatively small world; venture capital is even smaller and more incestuous. While most people here have not heard of Stewart Alsop, Elon Musk almost certainly knew of him, even if they've never met. Elon Musk may have been insulted because venture capitalists in SV are generally not expected to so openly criticize other SV companies (especially those funded by rivals?), and when they do criticize companies, they certainly don't insult founders. You can't deny that "you should be ashamed of yourself" is insulting to Elon.
- onli 11y agoCourse you can deny that. It is nowhere near an insult to call someone out on the behavior described in the article, and to tell someone he ought to feel ashamed is also not an insult.
- argonaut 11y agoYou are missing the human aspect. An insult can be true but still insulting. If a random person calls me on the phone and tells me that I was incredibly lazy this weekend and I'm just a lazy, lazy person on the weekends, that would be true, but it would also be insulting.
- onli 11y agoAnd that's exactly not what was happening here. It was not a random person, it was not about off-time, and it was not a generalization of specific behaviour, but targeted critic of a specific occurrence happening to the author (or in your example, the caller). But by the way: If someone tells you you are lazy on the weekends and you actually know you are lazy on the weekends, that is also not an insult. It is just a true observation. If you feel ashamed then it is because you don't want to be lazy on the weekend, for whatever reason. It is possible you mean that as feeling insulted by being judged. But that is another story and not the definition of insult. Insult would be if the caller would call you a lazy piece of shit for being incredibly lazy on the weekend – the explicit defamatory judgment. This honor insulting part is missing from the original scenario.
- ddingus 11y agoThis guy was looking for drama, and found it. Musk, is running balls out to actualize his vision for the future. He has also shown himself to be rational, able to handle failure with candor and trust, and emotional about what he's doing. That last bit is important. How else does one find the motivation to work that hard? Had that guy actually not tried to invoke drama, I suspect Musk would have responded differently. But he did. Frankly, I believe Musk will find that sort of thing as offensive as it is irrelevant. Rewarding the guy means validating drama, not enabling a meaningful conversation, which Musk has demonstrated he will have eagerly. If the potential for drama goes away, Musk will sell him a Tesla too. Rude isn't the right word here. Musk understands rude, and sometimes is rude as are the alphas on his teams. (Mostly all alphas anyway) No, rude isn't the issue. It's drama and how inconsiderate that use of precious time is. Musk is very keenly aware of time, and values it highly enough to be very seriously annoyed at such an egregious attempt to waste it. Secondly, all that waste does is raise the profile of someone not yet ready for it. Musk will take on a lot, and he's hard core too. Just don't attempt to burn his time to ride on his coattails, and it's likely all good. And I am not saying the intent here was nefarious or anything. What we are seeing is a clash in values and priorities. Sometimes, we feel like we know people, when we really don't. That is what happened here.
- rubberstamp 11y agoI thought Mr.Musk had more integrity. Am not his fan anymore. Mr.Alsop was just complaining about the way the launch event was organised. Even if just one customer showed up for the event its just bad on Tesla's part to keep them waiting that long without even owing an apology for that long. Half hour delay is within normal limits for a big event. On top of that cancelling a pre order was very very childish. Look who's treating their customers badly. Now people will think again before paying him for a trip to mars. Better not annoy him or ...
- brianwawok 11y agoWhat does integrity have to being a customer is already right yes man? Sometimes the customer is wrong. And sometimes you need to fire a customer. He did it in a fine way. Its not like Musk posted to twitter. He just quietly cancelled the order. I would have done the same.
- rubberstamp 11y agoThis is someone who pre ordered paying $5000, i guess 2 years back, so that he could get a car ASAP. Canceling a pre order because a customer complained he was kept waiting at a poorly organized launch event? If he was so offended by it he should have organized better launch event. Inviting someone to an event and then giving a poor experience was bad. Blogging about poor experience resulting in his pre order is only tainting reputation of Mr.Musk. No response to the blog would've been a much better response.
- brianwawok 11y agoThe preorder was quite clear it had no guaranteed delievery time. It wasn't like an iPhone that was 3 years late. I agree to disagree on it being fine to fire a customer. If someone acts like this before they have your product, why give them your product? Nothing good could come of it. If a customer Is rude in their first email to you - don't respond or don't sell them a product. The relationship isn't going to magically get better down the road. Some people are just rude.
- tehwebguy 11y agoSounds like a PayPal customer experience
- smpetrey 11y agoPersonally thought he had more integrity than that. But then again, no one ever said that great men are good men.
- kamaal 11y agoFrom the tweet.. >>Must be a slow news day if denying service to a super rude customer gets this much attention Just saying. Rude customers are nothing new. As somebody who worked as a tech support guy for a call center, for a major US computer company, if anything a rude customer was treated as a opportunity. I would receive any where between 10-12 extremely rude and inconsiderate calls. Many would be very intimidating. And a lot of times, I have managed to get them to understand our side of the story, followed up on their issues, taught them how to use the internet, worked with their ISP's to fix their issues(sometimes people think, no internet is the computer's problem, not ISP's) and some times even given tuitions to customers on how to use their computers. None of that needed to be done, but doing it built very strong relationships. I can't even remember how many times our customer interaction coach would talk to us telling delighting a rude/irate/inconsiderate customer many a times mattered more than the very quality of the product. Because strong relationships bring people back, they help in word-of-mouth of marketing and helps build brand value. You do not look at your customers as your enemy. No matter who you are. Especially CEO's need to realize this more. Would you like to business with a company whose CEO/Employee(s) fights with its customers? It doesn't take much common sense to understand this. If this is the experience pre-sales, how do you expect to be treated after you've purchased the product.
- tamana 11y agoAslop isn't a rude customer. He is a billionaire dbag playing social signaling games with Musk. This isn't really a vendor-customer dispute.
- brudgers 11y agoOn the scale of possible obnoxious behavior, at least Tesla didn't ship the car and then shut it down over the air later. But along those same lines, this is precedent setting. Complaints in an enthusiast forum or a poor review in Road and Driver Weekly could result in similar bans. It also probably supports the case in favor of the state level auto dealership laws Tesla finds so troublesome. That's one reason why negative comments about BMW don't prevent someone from buying one.
- kunai 11y agoAlsop is an asshat. But Musk decided to stoop to his level and prove him right. This doesn't really bode well for his reputation, and might call into question his bold assertions (especially for SpaceX) and how much water they might hold if he can't even handle someone being petty towards his launch event. The man's obviously brilliant. But there are a lot of other brilliant men and women who don't get the credo and also don't get their flaws overlooked because of celebrity. Hopefully this is a sobering reminder that it's good not to take anyone's personality at face value until you get to know them well.
- tn13 11y agoElon Musk is number one reason why I have never purchase Tesla shares. I think he is too childish and tries to sell snake oils to other people. This sort of incident confirms it. He probably spends millions of dollars to keep himself in news with "Musk does this cool thing" type stories where in reality his Tesla or Space-X hasn't made any serious progress disproportionate to the money people have put into it. This move is petty, brings bad PR to Musk and his company and gives more exposure to this one customer who did not like the company. This shows that Musk's PR team (and he) is incompetent to the extent that they have let emotions and ego take precedence over smart business decision.
- tn13 11y agoIs this a warning to other honest reviewers and media houses that Elon Musk will go after their throat and hurt them in all possible ways if they don't strip and do a cheerleader dance for him?