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For instance, I don't think that continuing the War on Drugs is practical. But I recognize that ending it is a gradual process, not an overnight one. It's entir

by bwh2 17y ago

For instance, I don't think that continuing the War on Drugs is practical. But I recognize that ending it is a gradual process, not an overnight one. It's entirely impractical in many regards (economic, social, political) to just stop the War on Drugs overnight. In my opinion, people who are going to complain about something should offer some practical alternative.

Semiapies 17y ago
Ah, so you completely ignored my post beyond that question. Fair enough, I'll return the favor: "people who are going to complain about something should offer some practical alternative" Meh. When the overwhelming majority of the public does not believe that things like the war on drugs are destructive programs that should be stopped, why waste time on trying to satisfy the rare person who says he already agrees, but demands we all have a presentation on a detailed decriminalization/legalization scheme decades before it's even worth talking about?
- bwh2 17y ago
  I don't advocate having a detailed decriminalization scheme, but an overview or outline would be nice. To that end, I think identifying clear steps, as opposed to a strictly ideological argument, is a good way to convince the overwhelming majority that the change is necessary and good. But of all those examples, the War on Drugs is probably the easiest to "just stop," so to speak. Putting an end to Social Security overnight means that grandparents around the country won't have any source of income. That's a good example of where just ending a program overnight seems impractical to me. To address your previous point, I have spent some time on Mises before, not as much Cato. But not enough time on either to really comment about specifics on their proposals or lack thereof. I suspect the reasoning you presented is probably accurate, at least in some part.
  - Semiapies 17y ago
    "I think identifying clear steps, as opposed to a strictly ideological argument, is a good way to convince the overwhelming majority that the change is necessary and good." Not sure where anyone made any "pure ideological arguments", especially since this is a thread off a very consequentialist blog post...but no, having a plan doesn't convince people that action is necessary or desirable. Plans are what you discuss after people generally agree that change must happen; the public at large doesn't want most changes libertarians are interested in, so trying to sell them on how to carry out those changes is hugely premature.

by bwh2 17y ago

Semiapies 17y ago

Ah, so you completely ignored my post beyond that question. Fair enough, I'll return the favor: "people who are going to complain about something should offer some practical alternative" Meh. When the overwhelming majority of the public does not believe that things like the war on drugs are destructive programs that should be stopped, why waste time on trying to satisfy the rare person who says he already agrees, but demands we all have a presentation on a detailed decriminalization/legalization scheme decades before it's even worth talking about?

bwh2 17y ago
I don't advocate having a detailed decriminalization scheme, but an overview or outline would be nice. To that end, I think identifying clear steps, as opposed to a strictly ideological argument, is a good way to convince the overwhelming majority that the change is necessary and good. But of all those examples, the War on Drugs is probably the easiest to "just stop," so to speak. Putting an end to Social Security overnight means that grandparents around the country won't have any source of income. That's a good example of where just ending a program overnight seems impractical to me. To address your previous point, I have spent some time on Mises before, not as much Cato. But not enough time on either to really comment about specifics on their proposals or lack thereof. I suspect the reasoning you presented is probably accurate, at least in some part.
- Semiapies 17y ago
  "I think identifying clear steps, as opposed to a strictly ideological argument, is a good way to convince the overwhelming majority that the change is necessary and good." Not sure where anyone made any "pure ideological arguments", especially since this is a thread off a very consequentialist blog post...but no, having a plan doesn't convince people that action is necessary or desirable. Plans are what you discuss after people generally agree that change must happen; the public at large doesn't want most changes libertarians are interested in, so trying to sell them on how to carry out those changes is hugely premature.