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> These photos remind me of William Gibson's observations on tactical fashion -- if you are really a militant, then the last thing you'd want to do is look all

> These photos remind me of William Gibson's observations on tactical fashion -- if you are really a militant, then the last thing you'd want to do is look all tactical and stuff. Hear. Hear. The AR-15 segment of gun culture is essentially cosplay. For example, the AR-15 is impractical gun for both home defense (Too long to for hallways. Too powerful for drywall.) and actually illegal to hunt with because the bullets are literally too small to bring down game.[1] However, you look like a fucking action movie star. Tactical vests, "every day carry" trauma kits, throat mics, body armor, etc. There's no practical reason for any of these, other than the owner wants to play dress up. Businesses know this. Why else would say armor manufacturer AR5000 unveil a Boba Fett helmet[2]. [1] http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/campfire/are-assault-rifles-hunting http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/campfire/are-assault-ri... [2] http://io9.gizmodo.com/check-out-this-boba-fett-inspired-tactical-armor-before-1753821526 http://io9.gizmodo.com/check-out-this-boba-fett-inspired-tac...

ptomato 11y ago
The AR-15 is almost certainly the most-used gun (not a majority, just more used than any other model of gun) for hunting in the US, though it's more common for varminting than for medium-large game. Hunting e.g. whitetail deer with .223 is fine even, though you're somewhat restricted in shots you can take for a humane kill vs. other calibers. Also, it's a perfectly reasonable gun for home defense - compared to e.g. a 12 gauge shotgun which is commonly recommended, a typical AR-15 length (with extendable stock extended) might be around 37", whereas a typical 12 gauge shotgun even of the tactical variety (I.E. with an 18" barrel instead of a 24 or 28" hunting barrel) would be at least that long, but usually a bit longer. #00 buckshot has about the same drywall penetration as .223 FMJ, but using JHP (preferable anyway for defensive purposes) instead significantly reduces that.
hga 11y ago
The AR-15 segment of gun culture is essentially cosplay. For example, the AR-15 is impractical gun for both home defense (Too long to for hallways. All those who advise and use shotguns disagree, and a short carbine is certainly more manageable than a 20ga or greater shotgun. And they're certainly easier to aim under stress than a handgun, and ideal for bunker tactical situations (e.g. you stay in your bedroom waiting for the police to arrive, too bad for the intruder if he tries to break into that room ignoring your warnings). Too powerful for drywall.) I'm told this is most certainly not the case, or, rather, handgun bullets and heavy shot loads penetrate a lot more. I don't know because I prefer a 1911 for inside the home self defense, but I would most certainly use a rifle outside the home if opportunity allowed. Plenty of people have used AR-15 pattern rifles in self-defense, inside and outside the home. and actually illegal to hunt with because the bullets are literally too small to bring down game. They're fine for anything hog sized or below, and as far as I know legal in those domains. With the right modern bullet selection would be OK for white tail deer and I believe legal in some states (but I hope not for bigger game), but the laws from before the revolution in hunting bullets obviously weren't written with those in mind. I mean, it was derived from this successful varmint round: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.222_Remington https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.222_Remington ADDED: So, given all the real civilian world civilian utility they have, for a lot of men you could view them as modern versions of accessorizing a car.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  > Plenty of people have used AR-15 pattern rifles in self-defense, inside and outside the home. Genuinely curious: when have people used an AR-15 rifle outside for self-defense?
  - laotzu 11y ago
    Against zombies
    - hga 11y ago
      Maybe by virtue of being on drugs, but it's a real thing, try for example: https://www.google.com/search?q=ar+15+used+in+self+defense https://www.google.com/search?q=ar+15+used+in+self+defense or substitute home for self.
      - pavel_lishin 11y ago
        With the exception of the LA riots, every result I'm finding talks about home defense.
        hga 11y ago
        It's an inherently difficult thing to search for. "AR-15" is a registered trademark of Colt, but it's been a while since they made the majority of civilian AR-15 pattern rifles (for that matter they lost the M16 contract to FN years ago, and now aren't the exclusive M4 carbine manufacturer). You might have better luck substituting "assault rifle" or maybe "assault weapon". I can remember reading at least one, I think two cases with AR-15 pattern rifles being used outside the home, a few more if you extend this to general civilian versions of assault rifles, like in the LA riots.
  - nordsieck 11y ago
    LA riots
  - eaandkw 11y ago
thecoffman 11y ago
I agree with almost everything you've said here with the one exception being that an AR-15 is actually an excellent home defense weapon. Drywall penetration depends on which tests you're looking at but generally speaking it penetrates walls less than or at least not more than any standard pistol or shotgun round and its more likely to fragment on impact. As a sibling pointed out, the overall length of an AR is actually less than that of the commonly recommended shotgun, making it easier to handle in tight hallways. (Though its arguable that you shouldn't be doing much moving at all in such a scenario). I would also add that the recoil on an AR-15 is vastly more manageable than a pistol or shotgun making you less likely to hit things you don't intend. I'm in 100% agreement with the other stuff however. The "tacticool" segment of the market is basically adult dress-up.
runjake 11y ago
> the AR-15 is impractical gun for both home defense (Too long to for hallways. Too powerful for drywall.) 1. Actually, the .223/5.56mm round has less penetration in residential[1] that most handgun rounds due to its tumbling characteristics. 2. I'd say the AR-15 is impractical for home defense due to its stigma of being an evil black rifle, and that it seems like "overkill" to uneducated people. That's a shame, due to point #1, that it has less drywall/wood penetration than most handgun rounds. The AR-15 is a pretty useful and relatively economical system, due to its modularity. That said, I agree with a lot of your other opinions regarding elements of the gun/tacticool culture. [1.] In the drywall/stick-built US, anyway.
- linkregister 11y ago
  I started to look for sources to refute claim #1, but found several firearms manufacturers' websites that affirmed it. I was pretty shocked. I would still encourage use of a shotgun loaded with buckshot for home defense, since that same search engine query returned many results of state and federal cases where houses football fields away were penetrated by stray .223 rounds. Buckshot won't have the range to maim or kill compared to the NATO 5.56 round.
  - runjake 11y ago
    This isn't to confirm or refute your information, but rather some points: - Houses that were penetrated by stray .223 rounds from football fields (aka multiple hundreds of meters) away probably weren't rounds shot through drywall. Maybe from outdoors, or through a window, who knows. - .223 rounds that encounter no obstacles in flight have a flat trajectory of about 200 meters (2 football fields). .223 rounds that penetrate any substance of sufficient density have their flight path altered. - In my limited experience with buckshot (none with residential materials), it's probably going to have a relatively flat trajectory, even through drywall. Something to especially consider if you have other people in your home.
  - defen 11y ago
    > I would still encourage use of a shotgun loaded with buckshot for home defense I don't really have a dog in this fight, but one thing I've heard from "gun enthusiast" family members is that this is fine if you're imagining an "ideal scenario" of being barricaded in your room waiting for the cops to show up, but it's worth considering what can go wrong - compared to a shotgun, an AR is much easier to operate with one arm (if you just woke up and one is asleep, or you were involved in a struggle that disabled one, or whatever); much less recoil (could be an issue if smaller family members need to use it); faster rate of fire and more rounds available before reloading (in case you miss or there are multiple attackers).
twothamendment 11y ago
Impractical for home defense? That statement is a bit broad. It all depends on your home and you. Are you in an apartment in the city or multiple acres in the middle of nowhere? For some, home defense might start with the unknown drunk guy driving his ATV in a circle on the driveway while yelling crazy things. Home defense isn't always a bump in the night inside your house. I won't tell anyone they shouldn't use a handgun or shotgun or AR-15 for their defense - they all have their place, but I know which one I wouldn't want my wife to have if I were the bad guy. It has something to do with being light weight, very low recoil, fast follow up, multiple rounds and the way the steel silhouette made a "ding" each time she pulled the trigger.
wyager 11y ago
It is not illegal to hunt small game with an AR-15. Many people on Texas ranchland use ARs and similar rifles for pest management. ARs are a very reasonable general purpose rifle. Medium size rounds, cheap parts, lots of flexibility, highly standardized, easy to maintain. It's also disingenuous to ignore recreational shooting. Hunting and home defense are not the only uses for firearms. In the case of militiamen, it's also a perfectly good combat rifle. The US military has been using it since Vietnam with mostly success (excepting a few early issues).
alricb 11y ago
re: Throat mic, they have their use! Specifically, being able to properly do the "Ah-ah" in "Da da da": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtMThVUpc-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtMThVUpc-U

ptomato 11y ago

The AR-15 is almost certainly the most-used gun (not a majority, just more used than any other model of gun) for hunting in the US, though it's more common for varminting than for medium-large game. Hunting e.g. whitetail deer with .223 is fine even, though you're somewhat restricted in shots you can take for a humane kill vs. other calibers. Also, it's a perfectly reasonable gun for home defense - compared to e.g. a 12 gauge shotgun which is commonly recommended, a typical AR-15 length (with extendable stock extended) might be around 37", whereas a typical 12 gauge shotgun even of the tactical variety (I.E. with an 18" barrel instead of a 24 or 28" hunting barrel) would be at least that long, but usually a bit longer. #00 buckshot has about the same drywall penetration as .223 FMJ, but using JHP (preferable anyway for defensive purposes) instead significantly reduces that.

hga 11y ago

The AR-15 segment of gun culture is essentially cosplay. For example, the AR-15 is impractical gun for both home defense (Too long to for hallways. All those who advise and use shotguns disagree, and a short carbine is certainly more manageable than a 20ga or greater shotgun. And they're certainly easier to aim under stress than a handgun, and ideal for bunker tactical situations (e.g. you stay in your bedroom waiting for the police to arrive, too bad for the intruder if he tries to break into that room ignoring your warnings). Too powerful for drywall.) I'm told this is most certainly not the case, or, rather, handgun bullets and heavy shot loads penetrate a lot more. I don't know because I prefer a 1911 for inside the home self defense, but I would most certainly use a rifle outside the home if opportunity allowed. Plenty of people have used AR-15 pattern rifles in self-defense, inside and outside the home. and actually illegal to hunt with because the bullets are literally too small to bring down game. They're fine for anything hog sized or below, and as far as I know legal in those domains. With the right modern bullet selection would be OK for white tail deer and I believe legal in some states (but I hope not for bigger game), but the laws from before the revolution in hunting bullets obviously weren't written with those in mind. I mean, it was derived from this successful varmint round: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.222_Remington https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.222_Remington ADDED: So, given all the real civilian world civilian utility they have, for a lot of men you could view them as modern versions of accessorizing a car.

pavel_lishin 11y ago
> Plenty of people have used AR-15 pattern rifles in self-defense, inside and outside the home. Genuinely curious: when have people used an AR-15 rifle outside for self-defense?
- laotzu 11y ago
  Against zombies
  - hga 11y ago
    Maybe by virtue of being on drugs, but it's a real thing, try for example: https://www.google.com/search?q=ar+15+used+in+self+defense https://www.google.com/search?q=ar+15+used+in+self+defense or substitute home for self.
    - pavel_lishin 11y ago
      With the exception of the LA riots, every result I'm finding talks about home defense.
      - hga 11y ago
        It's an inherently difficult thing to search for. "AR-15" is a registered trademark of Colt, but it's been a while since they made the majority of civilian AR-15 pattern rifles (for that matter they lost the M16 contract to FN years ago, and now aren't the exclusive M4 carbine manufacturer). You might have better luck substituting "assault rifle" or maybe "assault weapon". I can remember reading at least one, I think two cases with AR-15 pattern rifles being used outside the home, a few more if you extend this to general civilian versions of assault rifles, like in the LA riots.
- nordsieck 11y ago
  LA riots
- eaandkw 11y ago

thecoffman 11y ago

I agree with almost everything you've said here with the one exception being that an AR-15 is actually an excellent home defense weapon. Drywall penetration depends on which tests you're looking at but generally speaking it penetrates walls less than or at least not more than any standard pistol or shotgun round and its more likely to fragment on impact. As a sibling pointed out, the overall length of an AR is actually less than that of the commonly recommended shotgun, making it easier to handle in tight hallways. (Though its arguable that you shouldn't be doing much moving at all in such a scenario). I would also add that the recoil on an AR-15 is vastly more manageable than a pistol or shotgun making you less likely to hit things you don't intend. I'm in 100% agreement with the other stuff however. The "tacticool" segment of the market is basically adult dress-up.

runjake 11y ago

> the AR-15 is impractical gun for both home defense (Too long to for hallways. Too powerful for drywall.) 1. Actually, the .223/5.56mm round has less penetration in residential[1] that most handgun rounds due to its tumbling characteristics. 2. I'd say the AR-15 is impractical for home defense due to its stigma of being an evil black rifle, and that it seems like "overkill" to uneducated people. That's a shame, due to point #1, that it has less drywall/wood penetration than most handgun rounds. The AR-15 is a pretty useful and relatively economical system, due to its modularity. That said, I agree with a lot of your other opinions regarding elements of the gun/tacticool culture. [1.] In the drywall/stick-built US, anyway.

linkregister 11y ago
I started to look for sources to refute claim #1, but found several firearms manufacturers' websites that affirmed it. I was pretty shocked. I would still encourage use of a shotgun loaded with buckshot for home defense, since that same search engine query returned many results of state and federal cases where houses football fields away were penetrated by stray .223 rounds. Buckshot won't have the range to maim or kill compared to the NATO 5.56 round.
- runjake 11y ago
  This isn't to confirm or refute your information, but rather some points: - Houses that were penetrated by stray .223 rounds from football fields (aka multiple hundreds of meters) away probably weren't rounds shot through drywall. Maybe from outdoors, or through a window, who knows. - .223 rounds that encounter no obstacles in flight have a flat trajectory of about 200 meters (2 football fields). .223 rounds that penetrate any substance of sufficient density have their flight path altered. - In my limited experience with buckshot (none with residential materials), it's probably going to have a relatively flat trajectory, even through drywall. Something to especially consider if you have other people in your home.
- defen 11y ago
  > I would still encourage use of a shotgun loaded with buckshot for home defense I don't really have a dog in this fight, but one thing I've heard from "gun enthusiast" family members is that this is fine if you're imagining an "ideal scenario" of being barricaded in your room waiting for the cops to show up, but it's worth considering what can go wrong - compared to a shotgun, an AR is much easier to operate with one arm (if you just woke up and one is asleep, or you were involved in a struggle that disabled one, or whatever); much less recoil (could be an issue if smaller family members need to use it); faster rate of fire and more rounds available before reloading (in case you miss or there are multiple attackers).

twothamendment 11y ago

Impractical for home defense? That statement is a bit broad. It all depends on your home and you. Are you in an apartment in the city or multiple acres in the middle of nowhere? For some, home defense might start with the unknown drunk guy driving his ATV in a circle on the driveway while yelling crazy things. Home defense isn't always a bump in the night inside your house. I won't tell anyone they shouldn't use a handgun or shotgun or AR-15 for their defense - they all have their place, but I know which one I wouldn't want my wife to have if I were the bad guy. It has something to do with being light weight, very low recoil, fast follow up, multiple rounds and the way the steel silhouette made a "ding" each time she pulled the trigger.

wyager 11y ago

It is not illegal to hunt small game with an AR-15. Many people on Texas ranchland use ARs and similar rifles for pest management. ARs are a very reasonable general purpose rifle. Medium size rounds, cheap parts, lots of flexibility, highly standardized, easy to maintain. It's also disingenuous to ignore recreational shooting. Hunting and home defense are not the only uses for firearms. In the case of militiamen, it's also a perfectly good combat rifle. The US military has been using it since Vietnam with mostly success (excepting a few early issues).

alricb 11y ago

re: Throat mic, they have their use! Specifically, being able to properly do the "Ah-ah" in "Da da da": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtMThVUpc-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtMThVUpc-U