4 ms·

I feel so sad when I read stories like these ones... a 300$ ticket is the difference between being broke and having food on the table for her. To me it says a

by xutopia 11y ago

I feel so sad when I read stories like these ones... a 300$ ticket is the difference between being broke and having food on the table for her. To me it says a lot about our society if we can't take care of our elderly.

dreamdu5t 11y ago
While I agree with your sentiment, I do not agree that it is my responsibility to take care of your parents. I want to take care of mine, and socializing these costs just means I'm forced to pay for your parents at the expense of mine. There is no replacement for the family unit. Obviously I feel differently about people who have no family, but that is the exception not the norm.
- ossreality 11y ago
  >socializing these costs just means I'm forced to pay for your parents at the expense of mine wow, just wow. that doesn't even make sense and yet you asserted it because it's the only leg you have to stand on
- marshray 11y ago
  Not every elderly is a parent.
  - merrywhether 11y ago
    Which a cynic would say means they had an opportunity to save tons of money over the course of their life (relative to those who paid for having kids).
- exhilaration 11y ago
  You're pretty confident that you and/or your savings will live to take care of your parents. What if you get hit by a bus? Or lose your ability to work? Isn't that what a social safety net is for?
  - caskance 11y ago
    For most of us with dependents, that's what private life insurance is for. The social safety net is for people too poor or irresponsible to have life insurance.
    - jtuente 11y ago
      Do people not understand the safety part of the safety net? It's not there because you expect to fail, it's there for if you happen to. I don't keep a fire extinguisher in my kitchen because I expect to set it on fire, but rather I want to be able to stop a fire should one ignite. If you're reliant on a safety net, then you've failed at what you were trying to do.
      - caskance 11y ago
        What does that have to do with what I said? Why do you think I mentioned life insurance?
- quadrangle 11y ago
  Not socializing these costs means externalizing them. Should we all chip in to take care of this very social issue or should we just accept the costs in the form of living in a dysfunctional society with all the ramifications of huge numbers of poor elderly folks? We bear the costs as a society one way or the other. It seems what you're saying is: you just wish every elderly person just had a wealthy enough family that could comfortably take care of them. But that's completely useless fantasy talk.
- tamana 11y ago
  Since everyone has 2 parents, essentially, it is absolutely trivial to work out a fair welfare scheme. This is much easier than most welfare systems.
  - CocaKoala 11y ago
    Please explain this fair welfare scheme which is trivial to work out, because I'm not seeing how "every person has two parents" leads directly to it.
- tamana 11y ago
  Since everyone has 2 parents, essentially, it is absolutely trivial to work out a fair welfare scheme. This is much easier than most welfare systems.
MrZongle2 11y ago
"a 300$ ticket is the difference between being broke and having food on the table for her." And the same could be said for a 18-year-old, living out on his or her own. But in both cases, it is the result of a poor choice (inattentive driving) rather than a major flaw of society, and has nothing to do with being "too poor to retire and too young to die", as was the supposed focus of the article.
- RussianCow 11y ago
  Replace the speeding ticket with medical treatment, and that no longer holds true. Either way, you're missing the point, which is that no one (elderly or otherwise) should have to live a life in which a necessary expense of a couple hundred dollars can cause you to go hungry.
- Sir_Cmpwn 11y ago
  The punishment for this speeding infraction is $300. Think about what kind of effect a $300 fine has on your life, and compare it to the impact on this woman's life. The punishment is to pay a fine, not to starve. We should not punish people with starvation, it's cruel and unusual. The punishment is different for you than for her, and that's not just.
  - MrZongle2 11y ago
    Think about what kind of effect a $300 fine has on your life, and compare it to the impact on this woman's life. I have. That's why I don't speed. $300 lost means that I have to find what to cut from a budget to support a family of four, while trying to pay off all my bills with a goal to become debt free before I become this woman's age. Unlike the woman in the article, we don't choose tours of Frank Lloyd Wright buildings over dental care. I'd like to know how the woman in the article budgeted her money 34 years ago, when she was my age. Then we're closer to comparing apples with apples, even though according to the article she never had children to further strain her finances. A lot of the discussion in this entire thread involving the traffic ticket focuses on how such a ticket is devastating to the poor and the weakest of wrist-slaps to the uber-rich. I see very little discussion of the potential impact on the majority of us in the middle class, or how personal responsibility factors into the mix.

by xutopia 11y ago

dreamdu5t 11y ago

While I agree with your sentiment, I do not agree that it is my responsibility to take care of your parents. I want to take care of mine, and socializing these costs just means I'm forced to pay for your parents at the expense of mine. There is no replacement for the family unit. Obviously I feel differently about people who have no family, but that is the exception not the norm.

ossreality 11y ago
>socializing these costs just means I'm forced to pay for your parents at the expense of mine wow, just wow. that doesn't even make sense and yet you asserted it because it's the only leg you have to stand on
marshray 11y ago
Not every elderly is a parent.
- merrywhether 11y ago
  Which a cynic would say means they had an opportunity to save tons of money over the course of their life (relative to those who paid for having kids).
exhilaration 11y ago
You're pretty confident that you and/or your savings will live to take care of your parents. What if you get hit by a bus? Or lose your ability to work? Isn't that what a social safety net is for?
- caskance 11y ago
  For most of us with dependents, that's what private life insurance is for. The social safety net is for people too poor or irresponsible to have life insurance.
  - jtuente 11y ago
    Do people not understand the safety part of the safety net? It's not there because you expect to fail, it's there for if you happen to. I don't keep a fire extinguisher in my kitchen because I expect to set it on fire, but rather I want to be able to stop a fire should one ignite. If you're reliant on a safety net, then you've failed at what you were trying to do.
    - caskance 11y ago
      What does that have to do with what I said? Why do you think I mentioned life insurance?
quadrangle 11y ago
Not socializing these costs means externalizing them. Should we all chip in to take care of this very social issue or should we just accept the costs in the form of living in a dysfunctional society with all the ramifications of huge numbers of poor elderly folks? We bear the costs as a society one way or the other. It seems what you're saying is: you just wish every elderly person just had a wealthy enough family that could comfortably take care of them. But that's completely useless fantasy talk.
tamana 11y ago
Since everyone has 2 parents, essentially, it is absolutely trivial to work out a fair welfare scheme. This is much easier than most welfare systems.
- CocaKoala 11y ago
  Please explain this fair welfare scheme which is trivial to work out, because I'm not seeing how "every person has two parents" leads directly to it.
tamana 11y ago
Since everyone has 2 parents, essentially, it is absolutely trivial to work out a fair welfare scheme. This is much easier than most welfare systems.

MrZongle2 11y ago

"a 300$ ticket is the difference between being broke and having food on the table for her." And the same could be said for a 18-year-old, living out on his or her own. But in both cases, it is the result of a poor choice (inattentive driving) rather than a major flaw of society, and has nothing to do with being "too poor to retire and too young to die", as was the supposed focus of the article.

RussianCow 11y ago
Replace the speeding ticket with medical treatment, and that no longer holds true. Either way, you're missing the point, which is that no one (elderly or otherwise) should have to live a life in which a necessary expense of a couple hundred dollars can cause you to go hungry.
Sir_Cmpwn 11y ago
The punishment for this speeding infraction is $300. Think about what kind of effect a $300 fine has on your life, and compare it to the impact on this woman's life. The punishment is to pay a fine, not to starve. We should not punish people with starvation, it's cruel and unusual. The punishment is different for you than for her, and that's not just.
- MrZongle2 11y ago
  Think about what kind of effect a $300 fine has on your life, and compare it to the impact on this woman's life. I have. That's why I don't speed. $300 lost means that I have to find what to cut from a budget to support a family of four, while trying to pay off all my bills with a goal to become debt free before I become this woman's age. Unlike the woman in the article, we don't choose tours of Frank Lloyd Wright buildings over dental care. I'd like to know how the woman in the article budgeted her money 34 years ago, when she was my age. Then we're closer to comparing apples with apples, even though according to the article she never had children to further strain her finances. A lot of the discussion in this entire thread involving the traffic ticket focuses on how such a ticket is devastating to the poor and the weakest of wrist-slaps to the uber-rich. I see very little discussion of the potential impact on the majority of us in the middle class, or how personal responsibility factors into the mix.