4 ms·

c may be slow relative to distances in space, but the universe is incredibly old as well. A civilization a million years ahead of us could have colonized the en

c may be slow relative to distances in space, but the universe is incredibly old as well. A civilization a million years ahead of us could have colonized the entire galaxy by now. And in any case, if there is anyone out there, there should be some evidence. Scientists have looked in various ways for megastructures (e.g. Dyson Spheres) and have found no evidence for their existence, even in the oldest of galaxies. The picture in my mind is quite bleak. The evidence seems to point to a very limited number of scenarios: 1. We are unique (in existence, in our technology, in our desire to expand, etc.) 2. We are first. 3. Civilizations destroy themselves before they can expand. 4. Civilizations do something else we don't yet understand that doesn't involve gathering more and more energy from surrounding space.

ck2 11y ago
Maybe such civilizations instead have value in limited reproduction and doesn't have the need for colonies all over their galaxy and incredible resource consumption. Just because humans breed with no point or purpose and even invent religion to insist on unmitigated population growth, doesn't mean that's a value shared with a more intelligent alien race. If anything, there is proof that more educated humans breed far less than their counterparts. Extend that further and imagine a planet the size of earth with only a few million sentient life forms. They might not feel the need to leave, outside of general exploration, but even then they might just use probes.
- cgriswald 11y ago
  Which points to either our uniqueness (1) or our not understanding their alien motivations (4). A few points I'll make for fun: 1. Life on Earth propagates as much as possible. It is only external factors (mostly resources, but also predation and other factors) which keep populations in check. This is likely a shared trait of all (successful) life in the universe. This doesn't preclude the possibility of a species moving beyond this trait* but it does suggest that either the trait fails at some point prior to stellar engineering or interstellar colonization or that all advanced civilizations move beyond it. 2. Even if spreading throughout the universe is not a species' goal, whatever their goals are will require energy. It is likely those goals will require greater and greater energies as our own goals have and will continue to do for the foreseeable future. The only way I see around this problem is novel physics which seem impossible in our current understanding of the universe. 3. At some point every species must leave their host star or perish. (However, if they find themselves around a red dwarf, they will have quite a bit of time - and will not have to have moved since the beginning of the universe. So it may be we are freaks because we are around a shorter-lived orange star.) But this is speculation at best. I'd rather speculate that they all created their own pocket universes that are ideally suited to their species and left the rest of us behind. :) *Although I would suggest that natural selection is an unlikely candidate for the development of such a trait. In my opinion, this would require directly modification of whatever passes for DNA in the species. Even enforced population controls would probably not be enough to contain a species.
  - ck2 11y ago
    You're going off the deep-end for fantasy when you start saying "pocket universes". Even dyson spheres are an exponentially advanced civilization problem, not just for energy but for material to build it from. To achieve frequent non-robotic travel beyond a solar system, a species would have to first master unlimited "free" energy (ie. fusion). This seems to be an extreme non-trivial problem. Even a civilization tens of thousands of years ahead of us may not have mastered it on a portable scale, limiting their travel and making "home" far more comfortable. And again, with unlimited energy, they still might not even feel the need to leave their solar system except for basic exploration, they might be xenophobic. If the spark of the dna for virtually all life on earth maybe came from somewhere else, injected into our potent primordial soup, perhaps it happened when the galaxy, even the universe was closer together so it didn't have to travel so far. But now the few other "cousins" of life we have in the galaxy/universe may be too far away simply from the expansion of space itself, not just big-bang momentum.

ck2 11y ago

Maybe such civilizations instead have value in limited reproduction and doesn't have the need for colonies all over their galaxy and incredible resource consumption. Just because humans breed with no point or purpose and even invent religion to insist on unmitigated population growth, doesn't mean that's a value shared with a more intelligent alien race. If anything, there is proof that more educated humans breed far less than their counterparts. Extend that further and imagine a planet the size of earth with only a few million sentient life forms. They might not feel the need to leave, outside of general exploration, but even then they might just use probes.

cgriswald 11y ago
Which points to either our uniqueness (1) or our not understanding their alien motivations (4). A few points I'll make for fun: 1. Life on Earth propagates as much as possible. It is only external factors (mostly resources, but also predation and other factors) which keep populations in check. This is likely a shared trait of all (successful) life in the universe. This doesn't preclude the possibility of a species moving beyond this trait* but it does suggest that either the trait fails at some point prior to stellar engineering or interstellar colonization or that all advanced civilizations move beyond it. 2. Even if spreading throughout the universe is not a species' goal, whatever their goals are will require energy. It is likely those goals will require greater and greater energies as our own goals have and will continue to do for the foreseeable future. The only way I see around this problem is novel physics which seem impossible in our current understanding of the universe. 3. At some point every species must leave their host star or perish. (However, if they find themselves around a red dwarf, they will have quite a bit of time - and will not have to have moved since the beginning of the universe. So it may be we are freaks because we are around a shorter-lived orange star.) But this is speculation at best. I'd rather speculate that they all created their own pocket universes that are ideally suited to their species and left the rest of us behind. :) *Although I would suggest that natural selection is an unlikely candidate for the development of such a trait. In my opinion, this would require directly modification of whatever passes for DNA in the species. Even enforced population controls would probably not be enough to contain a species.
- ck2 11y ago
  You're going off the deep-end for fantasy when you start saying "pocket universes". Even dyson spheres are an exponentially advanced civilization problem, not just for energy but for material to build it from. To achieve frequent non-robotic travel beyond a solar system, a species would have to first master unlimited "free" energy (ie. fusion). This seems to be an extreme non-trivial problem. Even a civilization tens of thousands of years ahead of us may not have mastered it on a portable scale, limiting their travel and making "home" far more comfortable. And again, with unlimited energy, they still might not even feel the need to leave their solar system except for basic exploration, they might be xenophobic. If the spark of the dna for virtually all life on earth maybe came from somewhere else, injected into our potent primordial soup, perhaps it happened when the galaxy, even the universe was closer together so it didn't have to travel so far. But now the few other "cousins" of life we have in the galaxy/universe may be too far away simply from the expansion of space itself, not just big-bang momentum.