6 ms·

...or Google is just getting better at serving the right advertisement at the right time?

tyingq 11y ago
They are getting better, every single year, over more than a decade, in a way that click growth outpaces traffic growth. Despite circumstances that would counter the effort. It seems unlikely it's just targeting, without spilling over into something that's bad for consumers.
- metaphorm 11y ago
  I think your concerns raise an interesting point but I would like to know what, specifically, is "something that's bad for consumers." There might be something to dig into here. I'd like to learn more. Can you expand on your previous point?
  - dynofuz 11y ago
    Previously google used to organically list products in their "froogle" search. now all product listings are ads. Therefore it's not surfacing content from the entire web which almost always has products for cheaper prices.
    - metaphorm 11y ago
      are there no organic listings at all? or is it just that there are now way more paid listings so the first page is entirely paid placements? thats a pretty big difference. I recall that when froogle/google-shopping first launched they were just filling in content from search results because they didn't have very much direct engagement by vendors. maybe that's changed now so the search results were just scaled back because not necessary. I dunno. I'm willing to accept non-nefarious explanations for this. That doesn't mean it isn't on the whole better for google and their paid advertisers. Whether or not that also means its worse for consumers is an open question.
      - dangrossman 11y ago
        There are no organic listings at all. The only way into Shopping results is via AdWords' Product Listing Ads. http://googlecommerce.blogspot.com/2012/05/building-better-shopping-experience.html http://googlecommerce.blogspot.com/2012/05/building-better-s...
        bduerst 11y ago
        It looks like it was because of stale product data in shopping >We believe that having a commercial relationship with merchants will encourage them to keep their product information fresh and up to date. Higher quality data—whether it’s accurate prices, the latest offers or product availability—should mean better shopping results for users, which in turn should create higher quality traffic for merchants.
        dsharlet 11y ago
        This makes sense. I stopped using google shopping a long time ago precisely because it seemed like so many of the results were junk for whatever reason (staleness is a likely reason). "Junk" meaning the search result did not lead to an option to actually buy the product I was searching for. I haven't tried it since then, so I can't comment on if it's actually better now or if it's due to these changes.
- AnthonyMouse 11y ago
  > They are getting better, every single year, over more than a decade, in a way that click growth outpaces traffic growth. That they're getting better at it is why click growth outpaces traffic growth. If they stayed the same at it then click growth would equal traffic growth. > It seems unlikely it's just targeting, without spilling over into something that's bad for consumers. It could be one or the other or both. Care to present any evidence or reasoning as to why we should make one conclusion or the other?
  - tyingq 11y ago
    >> Care to present any evidence They certainly do things today that they did not do 5 years ago. Like specific query results where everything above the fold on desktop is an ad. I personally do not think that's good for consumers. I suspect, though, that you disagree. On your other point, they are getting better every year as measured by a YoY comparison...not just plain growth. Double-digit percentage YoY improvement. That's hard to do.
    - Phlarp 11y ago
      >Like specific query results where everything above the fold on desktop is an ad. Do you have an non-anecdotal evidence to present? A few advertisement laden queries and a "funny feeling" is rarely a sound investment strategy.
      - magicalist 11y ago
        It depends on how you defined "above the fold", but I have seen this on occasion. It's hard to replicate, though. For instance "credit card" is a search terms often overflowing with ads, but it's only giving a few to me right now. Where GP is wrong is that this is something "they did not do 5 years ago". There were a ton of articles complaining about it in 2008/2009. Unless it is happening on many times more search terms than it was back then, it wouldn't explain the increased click rate at all. The fact that the increase was YoY makes it even more dubious.
        11y ago

They are getting better, every single year, over more than a decade, in a way that click growth outpaces traffic growth. Despite circumstances that would counter the effort. It seems unlikely it's just targeting, without spilling over into something that's bad for consumers.

metaphorm 11y ago
I think your concerns raise an interesting point but I would like to know what, specifically, is "something that's bad for consumers." There might be something to dig into here. I'd like to learn more. Can you expand on your previous point?
- dynofuz 11y ago
  Previously google used to organically list products in their "froogle" search. now all product listings are ads. Therefore it's not surfacing content from the entire web which almost always has products for cheaper prices.
  - metaphorm 11y ago
    are there no organic listings at all? or is it just that there are now way more paid listings so the first page is entirely paid placements? thats a pretty big difference. I recall that when froogle/google-shopping first launched they were just filling in content from search results because they didn't have very much direct engagement by vendors. maybe that's changed now so the search results were just scaled back because not necessary. I dunno. I'm willing to accept non-nefarious explanations for this. That doesn't mean it isn't on the whole better for google and their paid advertisers. Whether or not that also means its worse for consumers is an open question.
    - dangrossman 11y ago
      There are no organic listings at all. The only way into Shopping results is via AdWords' Product Listing Ads. http://googlecommerce.blogspot.com/2012/05/building-better-shopping-experience.html http://googlecommerce.blogspot.com/2012/05/building-better-s...
      - bduerst 11y ago
        It looks like it was because of stale product data in shopping >We believe that having a commercial relationship with merchants will encourage them to keep their product information fresh and up to date. Higher quality data—whether it’s accurate prices, the latest offers or product availability—should mean better shopping results for users, which in turn should create higher quality traffic for merchants.
        dsharlet 11y ago
        This makes sense. I stopped using google shopping a long time ago precisely because it seemed like so many of the results were junk for whatever reason (staleness is a likely reason). "Junk" meaning the search result did not lead to an option to actually buy the product I was searching for. I haven't tried it since then, so I can't comment on if it's actually better now or if it's due to these changes.
AnthonyMouse 11y ago
> They are getting better, every single year, over more than a decade, in a way that click growth outpaces traffic growth. That they're getting better at it is why click growth outpaces traffic growth. If they stayed the same at it then click growth would equal traffic growth. > It seems unlikely it's just targeting, without spilling over into something that's bad for consumers. It could be one or the other or both. Care to present any evidence or reasoning as to why we should make one conclusion or the other?
- tyingq 11y ago
  >> Care to present any evidence They certainly do things today that they did not do 5 years ago. Like specific query results where everything above the fold on desktop is an ad. I personally do not think that's good for consumers. I suspect, though, that you disagree. On your other point, they are getting better every year as measured by a YoY comparison...not just plain growth. Double-digit percentage YoY improvement. That's hard to do.
  - Phlarp 11y ago
    >Like specific query results where everything above the fold on desktop is an ad. Do you have an non-anecdotal evidence to present? A few advertisement laden queries and a "funny feeling" is rarely a sound investment strategy.
    - magicalist 11y ago
      It depends on how you defined "above the fold", but I have seen this on occasion. It's hard to replicate, though. For instance "credit card" is a search terms often overflowing with ads, but it's only giving a few to me right now. Where GP is wrong is that this is something "they did not do 5 years ago". There were a ton of articles complaining about it in 2008/2009. Unless it is happening on many times more search terms than it was back then, it wouldn't explain the increased click rate at all. The fact that the increase was YoY makes it even more dubious.
      - 11y ago