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> It was a tricky series of maneuvers for even the most experienced engineer: speed up out of North Philadelphia Station; slow for a gradual curve at North Seco

by jmilloy 11y ago

> It was a tricky series of maneuvers for even the most experienced engineer: speed up out of North Philadelphia Station; slow for a gradual curve at North Second Street; throttle open again for the straightaway, where the speed limit is 70 m.p.h.; and dump speed for the sharp 50-m.p.h. curve. I don't know how to operate a train. Does pushing a throttle up or down count as a "manoeuvre"? What's "tricky" about this? Am I missing something, or is the author embellishing here? edit: grammar

interurban 11y ago
I imagine that when operating a ~400 ton machine any operation is at least slightly more complicated than just pushing a lever. Especially when combined into a series in a short period of time at night in poor lighting while having rocks thrown at your windshield.
dtparr 11y ago
I'm similarly ignorant on all the intricacies of driving a train, but my understanding is that the coupled nature of a train vs. a rigid body make the dynamics more difficult to deal with than you might imagine. That being said, I don't know how much that affects the difficulty of the operator at this point or whether that's all worked out in the train's control software. You can see what the engineer's station look like in the type of train discussed in the article here: http://www.eweek.com/mobile/slideshows/amtraks-new-siemens-locomotive-with-digital-controls-cruises-rails.html http://www.eweek.com/mobile/slideshows/amtraks-new-siemens-l... Looks like there is a combined throttle/braking control on the left side, then (multiple?) brakes on the right. Also FYI, maneuver isn't an error, it's the American English spelling.
- jcrawfordor 11y ago
  Yes, if I'm correct you are seeing the dynamic control on the left (forward for acceleration, reverse for dynamic braking) and the air brakes on the right - the big left handle is the train brake (sends the change down the brake line to the cars as well) and the smaller right handle is the locomotive-only brake (often used to get slow down the loco first so the coupler slack will get taken up and prevent bumping the passengers around or damaging equipment). The little LCD display shows some calculations to help the engineer make good braking decisions. Above the dynamic control on the left you see a small rotary lever - if I'm not mistaken this is the reverser, which simply selects between forward, neutral, and reverse. As a fun fact, this lever pops out and is used as the "key" for the train. For safety reasons, the engineer removes it when they leave the cab so that it's difficult to get it out of neutral. The big red button left of the dynamic control is the alerter acknowledge. This is the dead-man protection on locomotives and I suspect may factor into the conclusion on this investigation. When an alarm sounds, the operator has to press that button. The alarm becomes very jarring so it might have brought a confused or unconscious operator back to attention.
flyinghamster 11y ago
A train, or even just a single locomotive, has a hell of a lot of momentum, and steel wheels on steel rails don't offer a whole lot of braking capacity for the mass they are carrying. Stops and target speeds must be anticipated well in advance.
bdamm 11y ago
I think the author is embellishing. While it may be trickier than driving a truck, this is not on the same scale of difficulty as operating a large freight train, where the operator needs to consider where the back of the train is in relation to the locomotive, nor as difficult as operating an airliner, where a momentary navigational error could put the entire airship underground in a matter of seconds. I'd expect that trainee engineers are trained on specific routes. Whereas a car or truck driver would be expected to operate safely on roads they've never encountered before, this should not be the case for a passenger train engineer. So the difficulty would be doubly embellished. It appears to me that the most difficult part about driving a train is remaining alert and sober, absorbing and executing the restrictions on the track, and doing so confidently well in advance of turns or restrictions. The theory presented in the article, that he was injured as a result of a rock throw and lost control of the train, seems like as good a conclusion as any. Especially given how unusually dedicated the purported evidence shows him to be.
- RP_Joe 11y ago
  In India they are in training for 8 years I believe before they are allowed to drive a passenger train. Its far more complicated than it looks.
jcrawfordor 11y ago
A lot of this comes down to two things: 1) The range of acceleration and deceleration rates available to a train engineer is much, much smaller than you would think. There is simply limited traction and power available and the weight of the full consist is really enormous. This requires planning everything well ahead, which can be difficult in busy areas where you must both anticipate signals and mind an often large number of temporary orders. Train operations tend to sort of happen in slow motion, it's not about fast responses simply because by the time you try to make a fast response the situation is already unrecoverable. 2) Depending on the exact systems in use, speeding up and especially slowing down a train is more complicated than doing so in a vehicle. You have multiple brake systems available (primarily the dynamic and train air brakes), and the most powerful brake system, the air brakes, comes with a lot of tricky caveats as to how strongly you can apply it (mostly related to applying and releasing it too frequently, which can drain the air reserves). There's a lot of great info on this from a former engineer here: http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/brakes.htm http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/brakes.htm Certainly the author has decided to dramatize the situation. For these reasons, train speeds are established with a wide margin for error (of course not one of an additional 100%+ as in this incident).

by jmilloy 11y ago

interurban 11y ago

I imagine that when operating a ~400 ton machine any operation is at least slightly more complicated than just pushing a lever. Especially when combined into a series in a short period of time at night in poor lighting while having rocks thrown at your windshield.

dtparr 11y ago

I'm similarly ignorant on all the intricacies of driving a train, but my understanding is that the coupled nature of a train vs. a rigid body make the dynamics more difficult to deal with than you might imagine. That being said, I don't know how much that affects the difficulty of the operator at this point or whether that's all worked out in the train's control software. You can see what the engineer's station look like in the type of train discussed in the article here: http://www.eweek.com/mobile/slideshows/amtraks-new-siemens-locomotive-with-digital-controls-cruises-rails.html http://www.eweek.com/mobile/slideshows/amtraks-new-siemens-l... Looks like there is a combined throttle/braking control on the left side, then (multiple?) brakes on the right. Also FYI, maneuver isn't an error, it's the American English spelling.

jcrawfordor 11y ago
Yes, if I'm correct you are seeing the dynamic control on the left (forward for acceleration, reverse for dynamic braking) and the air brakes on the right - the big left handle is the train brake (sends the change down the brake line to the cars as well) and the smaller right handle is the locomotive-only brake (often used to get slow down the loco first so the coupler slack will get taken up and prevent bumping the passengers around or damaging equipment). The little LCD display shows some calculations to help the engineer make good braking decisions. Above the dynamic control on the left you see a small rotary lever - if I'm not mistaken this is the reverser, which simply selects between forward, neutral, and reverse. As a fun fact, this lever pops out and is used as the "key" for the train. For safety reasons, the engineer removes it when they leave the cab so that it's difficult to get it out of neutral. The big red button left of the dynamic control is the alerter acknowledge. This is the dead-man protection on locomotives and I suspect may factor into the conclusion on this investigation. When an alarm sounds, the operator has to press that button. The alarm becomes very jarring so it might have brought a confused or unconscious operator back to attention.

flyinghamster 11y ago

A train, or even just a single locomotive, has a hell of a lot of momentum, and steel wheels on steel rails don't offer a whole lot of braking capacity for the mass they are carrying. Stops and target speeds must be anticipated well in advance.

bdamm 11y ago

I think the author is embellishing. While it may be trickier than driving a truck, this is not on the same scale of difficulty as operating a large freight train, where the operator needs to consider where the back of the train is in relation to the locomotive, nor as difficult as operating an airliner, where a momentary navigational error could put the entire airship underground in a matter of seconds. I'd expect that trainee engineers are trained on specific routes. Whereas a car or truck driver would be expected to operate safely on roads they've never encountered before, this should not be the case for a passenger train engineer. So the difficulty would be doubly embellished. It appears to me that the most difficult part about driving a train is remaining alert and sober, absorbing and executing the restrictions on the track, and doing so confidently well in advance of turns or restrictions. The theory presented in the article, that he was injured as a result of a rock throw and lost control of the train, seems like as good a conclusion as any. Especially given how unusually dedicated the purported evidence shows him to be.

RP_Joe 11y ago
In India they are in training for 8 years I believe before they are allowed to drive a passenger train. Its far more complicated than it looks.

jcrawfordor 11y ago

A lot of this comes down to two things: 1) The range of acceleration and deceleration rates available to a train engineer is much, much smaller than you would think. There is simply limited traction and power available and the weight of the full consist is really enormous. This requires planning everything well ahead, which can be difficult in busy areas where you must both anticipate signals and mind an often large number of temporary orders. Train operations tend to sort of happen in slow motion, it's not about fast responses simply because by the time you try to make a fast response the situation is already unrecoverable. 2) Depending on the exact systems in use, speeding up and especially slowing down a train is more complicated than doing so in a vehicle. You have multiple brake systems available (primarily the dynamic and train air brakes), and the most powerful brake system, the air brakes, comes with a lot of tricky caveats as to how strongly you can apply it (mostly related to applying and releasing it too frequently, which can drain the air reserves). There's a lot of great info on this from a former engineer here: http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/brakes.htm http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/brakes.htm Certainly the author has decided to dramatize the situation. For these reasons, train speeds are established with a wide margin for error (of course not one of an additional 100%+ as in this incident).