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What a timely coincidence. I just finished reading Cixin Lui's "The Dark Forest" (it and the first book in the series "The Three-Body Problem" I cannot recommen
by careersuicide 11y ago
What a timely coincidence. I just finished reading Cixin Lui's "The Dark Forest" (it and the first book in the series "The Three-Body Problem" I cannot recommend enough). I think the central premise of the book is probably the worst of the possible reasons we haven't found anyone else out there...
"The universe is a dark forest. Every civilization is an armed hunter stalking through the trees like a ghost, gently pushing aside branches that block the path and trying to tread without sound. Even breathing is done with care. The hunter has to be careful, because everywhere in the forest are stealthy hunters like him. If he finds other life—another hunter, an angel or a demon, a delicate infant or a tottering old man, a fairy or a demigod—there’s only one thing he can do: open fire and eliminate them. In this forest, hell is other people. An eternal threat that any life that exposes its own existence will be swiftly wiped out. This is the picture of cosmic civilization. It’s the explanation for the Fermi Paradox."
- ucaetano 11y agoExcept that we've been pumping radio waves out of this rock as loud as we can for decades. We're the loud cousin who can't keep quiet when hunting.
- SixSigma 11y agoThis is how far human radio broadcasts have reached into the galaxy http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/3390.html http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/3390.ht...
- adamio 11y agomaybe we're just the crickets
- nsns 11y ago...or an inconsequential assemblage of organic molecules; forming and disintegrating in the blink of an eye.
- adamio 11y agomaybe we're just the crickets
- guelo 11y agoAnd, if one civilization found another it would take massive amounts of resources and time to launch an interstellar attack. I doubt humanity's first reaction would be to embark on a giant project to somehow try to destroy the other civilization. This idea makes no sense.
- pavel_lishin 11y agoIt would take a massive amount of resources if you're in a rush. What if you just lob a rock with a couple of steering thrusters towards a star using a solar sail? When it gets to the solar system, it tracks towards the nearest inhabitable planet, and does the thing that big rocks do.
- TrevorJ 11y agoI assume that because in this metaphor we are the baby. Reduce the scenario to, say two small human villages that just discovered each other, and it's not so hard to see how our tendency is to overrun and destroy, either by intention or by mistake. That's certainly something that has played out over and over again in our history.
- snowwrestler 11y agoYou're right, the hunters analogy breaks down if we imagine that the hunters are each on their own isolated continent. They couldn't attack each other even if they knew the other existed. That's how the universe works as we understand it now. And if we're wrong--if it is possible for a civilization to be capable of mounting an interstellar attack--they might not see themselves as a "fellow hunter." They might think nothing of harming us incidentally, like a kid burning ants with a magnifying glass.
- bnegreve 11y ago> Except that we've been pumping radio waves out of this rock as loud as we can for decades. It's true but there is a possibility that human radio activity does not last that long. We choose to transmit information using electromagnetic waves that propagates in every possible direction when there is no alternative, but it's a massive waste of energy and we may not continue to do so forever. As a matter of fact, an increasing amount of communications travel through optic fibers, which are not observable from space. (And that's also why they're efficient) If that's a correct prediction, we won't be pumping radio waves out of that rocks for more than a couple of decades. This is nothing compared to the age of the universe and may very well be missed, even if there's someone to observe.
- ucaetano 11y agoSure, but then the "dark forest" analogy still doesn't make sense.
- Teckla 11y agoExcept that we've been pumping radio waves out of this rock as loud as we can for decades. We're the loud cousin who can't keep quiet when hunting. The inverse-square law makes this a non-concern, doesn't it?
- colmvp 11y agoResearched Cixin Lui. Wow. Why haven't I heard about him before? I'm downloading The Three-Body Problem on my Kindle tonight.
- abrookewood 11y agoBecause western countries don't tend to get access to Chinese science fiction authors. Totally worth reading.
- NoGravitas 11y agoThis is also the premise of David Brin's short story "Lungfish".
- KineticLensman 11y agoSame premise as Greg Bear's The Forge of God [1] from 1987, where the aliens play mindgames with the civilizations they are about to destroy. His analogy (from memory) is baby birds cheeping in a tree. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forge_of_God https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forge_of_God
- abrookewood 11y agoThe sequel is excellent as well. I'd also recommend it highly. It's great seeing how one's culture affects your writing style and content.
- mercer 11y agoMy interest is piqued. Could you elaborate a bit on the writing style and content?
- abrookewood 11y agoIt's full of references to cultural traditions & beliefs that are totally foreign to me: everyday citizens highly suspicious of authority; continual awareness of the political climate and party concerns; the effects of cultural revolution; characters that are far less individualistic than I'm used to. The list goes on. Plus it's just a well written book to boot.
- mercer 11y agoSounds like I'll have to add another writer to my reading list :-). Thanks!