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Why do so many threads always have to devolve into a bizarre condemnation of capitalism? If you don't want to code for a living, then don't code for a living. D

Why do so many threads always have to devolve into a bizarre condemnation of capitalism? If you don't want to code for a living, then don't code for a living. Do it for fun and make money some other way. If you're upset that you have to work to survive, well, then maybe you need to have a reality check.

LesZedCB 11y ago
It's not bizarre. There is a long historical culture of criticism of capitalism. It's just been squashed in recent decades. I am a particularly privileged individual because I have a choice of what labor I can do, and even how much to an extent. Most people don't have the choice of just switching careers because they feel like it, and even fewer have the option of even realizing that there is some sort of activity that would be more fulfilling than what they do to survive. I believe the reality check needs to occur in the people who are too used to their own comfort that they can't even lift their blinders to look outside their own social environments and see the injustice that is happening on a massive scale in the world.
- marknutter 11y ago
  > I am a particularly privileged individual because I have a choice of what labor I can do, and even how much to an extent. Most people don't have the choice of just switching careers because they feel like it, and even fewer have the option of even realizing that there is some sort of activity that would be more fulfilling than what they do to survive. This is poisonous thinking. Programming is one of the most accessible industries on the planet that doesn't involve physical labor. If somebody has the desire, they can learn how to program and land a job for FREE. People seem to be squarely divided into two groups in this world: those who believe life happens to them, and those who believe that they make life happen.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    > This is poisonous thinking. Programming is one of the most accessible industries on the planet that doesn't involve physical labor. If somebody has the desire, they can learn how to program and land a job for FREE. Not when you spend 8+ hours doing a demanding but low-paying job (like most are) and then have to come home (+1-2h) to take care of the spouse/children/parents. And even without the latter obligations, there's only so much one can do after being exhausted doing the day; life is not just about working, and many (most?) people can't psychologically sustain doing only work for longer periods of time.
    - marknutter 11y ago
      Boy, you're right, it is hard. I guess that's good enough reason not to try.
      - TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Some people try. Some of them even succeed. It's worth to try, but let's not act surprised when the aggregate results look poorly. Issues like this are, like it or not, best viewed globally, not locally. If you raise the bar until, say, 20% of people can't handle it anymore, then you can go and preach about willpower all day long, but it won't change the fact that every fifth person simply won't have it, and it's not really their fault.
        dang 11y ago
        Hey, thanks for not taking the bait there and snapping back. This sort of neutral, put-things-back-on-topic reply is a great example for all of us. You made it look easy!
      - rmxt 11y ago
        It's hard to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps if you weren't born with them (and not everyone in the world is). Acknowledging reality does nothing to dissuade people from trying their hardest, but sometimes one's hardest isn't enough.
    - dwrowe 11y ago
      There are several aspects of life that are not fair. However, there are countless anecdotes of people psychologically sustaining to learn something new and improve their station in life. I will say, I support opening opportunities to learn. Not everyone has a computer - help foster an environment that gets people access to one. You cannot force someone to have the willpower to work on this, the _best_ you can do is offer opportunities.
      - LesZedCB 11y ago
        No, that's not the best you can do. What we can and should be doing is questioning the systemic inequalities and structures that cause poverty and wage dependence to exist in the first place. Whatever conclusion you come to, if you don't first put in the effort to see if there actually is a reason for existence to be this way, then yes, maybe all you can do is offer opportunities to a select few.
  - abustamam 11y ago
    It's a double-edged sword, IMO. On the one hand, yes, you can get the education to become a programmer for free. On the other hand, programming requires a semi-decent computer, which can set someone back a few hundred dollars. And of course it's time vs money: sure, you can spend a lot of time and zero money to become a great programmer, or you can spend a bit of money and much less time to become a great programmer. Some people can't afford that money to save the time.

LesZedCB 11y ago

It's not bizarre. There is a long historical culture of criticism of capitalism. It's just been squashed in recent decades. I am a particularly privileged individual because I have a choice of what labor I can do, and even how much to an extent. Most people don't have the choice of just switching careers because they feel like it, and even fewer have the option of even realizing that there is some sort of activity that would be more fulfilling than what they do to survive. I believe the reality check needs to occur in the people who are too used to their own comfort that they can't even lift their blinders to look outside their own social environments and see the injustice that is happening on a massive scale in the world.

marknutter 11y ago
> I am a particularly privileged individual because I have a choice of what labor I can do, and even how much to an extent. Most people don't have the choice of just switching careers because they feel like it, and even fewer have the option of even realizing that there is some sort of activity that would be more fulfilling than what they do to survive. This is poisonous thinking. Programming is one of the most accessible industries on the planet that doesn't involve physical labor. If somebody has the desire, they can learn how to program and land a job for FREE. People seem to be squarely divided into two groups in this world: those who believe life happens to them, and those who believe that they make life happen.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  > This is poisonous thinking. Programming is one of the most accessible industries on the planet that doesn't involve physical labor. If somebody has the desire, they can learn how to program and land a job for FREE. Not when you spend 8+ hours doing a demanding but low-paying job (like most are) and then have to come home (+1-2h) to take care of the spouse/children/parents. And even without the latter obligations, there's only so much one can do after being exhausted doing the day; life is not just about working, and many (most?) people can't psychologically sustain doing only work for longer periods of time.
  - marknutter 11y ago
    Boy, you're right, it is hard. I guess that's good enough reason not to try.
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      Some people try. Some of them even succeed. It's worth to try, but let's not act surprised when the aggregate results look poorly. Issues like this are, like it or not, best viewed globally, not locally. If you raise the bar until, say, 20% of people can't handle it anymore, then you can go and preach about willpower all day long, but it won't change the fact that every fifth person simply won't have it, and it's not really their fault.
      - dang 11y ago
        Hey, thanks for not taking the bait there and snapping back. This sort of neutral, put-things-back-on-topic reply is a great example for all of us. You made it look easy!
    - rmxt 11y ago
      It's hard to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps if you weren't born with them (and not everyone in the world is). Acknowledging reality does nothing to dissuade people from trying their hardest, but sometimes one's hardest isn't enough.
  - dwrowe 11y ago
    There are several aspects of life that are not fair. However, there are countless anecdotes of people psychologically sustaining to learn something new and improve their station in life. I will say, I support opening opportunities to learn. Not everyone has a computer - help foster an environment that gets people access to one. You cannot force someone to have the willpower to work on this, the _best_ you can do is offer opportunities.
    - LesZedCB 11y ago
      No, that's not the best you can do. What we can and should be doing is questioning the systemic inequalities and structures that cause poverty and wage dependence to exist in the first place. Whatever conclusion you come to, if you don't first put in the effort to see if there actually is a reason for existence to be this way, then yes, maybe all you can do is offer opportunities to a select few.
- abustamam 11y ago
  It's a double-edged sword, IMO. On the one hand, yes, you can get the education to become a programmer for free. On the other hand, programming requires a semi-decent computer, which can set someone back a few hundred dollars. And of course it's time vs money: sure, you can spend a lot of time and zero money to become a great programmer, or you can spend a bit of money and much less time to become a great programmer. Some people can't afford that money to save the time.