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Do you have any advice for freelancers looking for interesting clients? I'm mostly able to find clients that either 1) want full-time employees or 2) are worki

by herval 11y ago

Do you have any advice for freelancers looking for interesting clients? I'm mostly able to find clients that either 1) want full-time employees or 2) are working on 'me-too' CRUDs (sometimes both).

lhnz 11y ago
My suggestion is actually not to find interesting clients. My suggestion is to find high-paying clients and then to become your own 'interesting' client (aka, reduce your lifestyle cost to a point in which you're able to use this money to sustain months of self-directed work). Nothing is perfect and I've no idea whether this particular idiosyncrasy would suit other people - I'm still undecided whether it's for me.
- bobwaycott 11y ago
  Exactly this. I've been consulting with various clients for the last 4 years. I make a few multiples more than I need to survive, and do not work more than 50% of the working days per year. This is relatively easy to achieve: - I have no debt outside of a couple school loans, which I prioritize paying down to zero. Everything else is either living expenses, or discretionary spending. - I ensure my clients pay for everything they need—hosting, Github, any and all services. This is an easy sell, as it keeps everything firmly in their control and they can replace me at any time. - I charge by the day, not the hour. My clients have never complained, and they seem to find it easier to think and budget in per-day terms.
  - therealdrag0 11y ago
    Can you give more specifics on the typical project you take on? Genre/technologies/size/price.
- herval 11y ago
  That's basically what I've been doing. I'm not convinced that's the only possible way, which is why I asked. Working on pointless projects is fine for a short period of time (at least for me - I tried that approach multiple times in the past), but a potential source of burnout in the long run...
  - therealdrag0 11y ago
    Have you considered taking a pay cut to work more full time but at a company that you think is doing valuable work? There are a lot of companies trying to "change the world", surely one lines up with your values. Though sometimes the skills they want are more specialized than generic software development (which is what I have :( ).
eswat 11y ago
Echoing with the OP said. Figure out who your ideal client is: who they are, what projects they offer, how much they pay, etc. then go to where those ideal clients would hang out. Talk to them, understand them and figure out how you can relieve whatever business discomfort they’re facing. This will take some time but you’ll eventually get a stream of the type of client that can support the lifestyle you want and want to work and refer you continuously.
awjr 11y ago
I would suggest looking in the mirror ;) Let's be honest. Freelancers are not there to find "interesting clients". They are a temporary resource that enables a client to get a job done they under-resourced. You have a choice as a freelancer 1) Become money focused. Earn as much as you can for as long as you can. 2) Become idea focused. Earn as much as you can until you have enough to bootstrap the idea. Rinse and repeat. 3) Become money focused but use your income to get the idea fleshed out using upwork.com If you can get a few of you together it will be a better experience. Working at a co-location hub can be worth it.
- turnip1979 11y ago
  Dumb question .. how does one go about getting started as a freelancer? Are there agencies or some other mechanism to get you started? Specifically, interested in how to get started in North America.
  - Everhusk 11y ago
    There really is no secret. Just go do it. If you're serious about it then incorporating becomes a good idea to protect your assets. I would suggest starting with family and friends at reduced rates to build a portfolio.
  - zzalpha 11y ago
    Find a friend or fellow techie to subcontract for. Use that as a time to learn time management, invoicing and billing, taxes, etc, while you build up a network. This is basically freelance apprenticeship. Do that for maybe a year and then start doing your own thing.
  - cshipley 11y ago
    It's actually a larger question than you perhaps realize. There are different kinds of freelancing. The spectrum ranges from something that looks like "remote" work to something more akin to agency-like project work. That former is much easier. The latter pays better but requires a whole bunch of other skills, and takes much more time. The two aren't mutually exclusive however, and that is what I've done as part of my strategy. There is a monthly find a freelancer thread on here where you might be able to find a gig. Work on building your portfolio/reputation. I'd suggest small projects at reduced rates. Next, I'd visit a lawyer and get a template contract worked out. Rather than have him write one from scratch, find one that includes a lot of the things you want and have him tweak it. It will be cheaper that way. Most important (IMO) are indemnification, terms of payment, and arbitration. Get used to promoting yourself. Have your short and long "elevator pitch" together. Put together a landing page and get some business cards. Talk.To.Everyone! You never know where and when your next client will come from. One of the issues you will run into is the feast or famine issue. You never know when you will get your next client, you have to always be on the lookout and courting -- overloading the queue because a percentage will drop out. If you don't find the next soon enough, then famine. If, as it happens often, several prospects say yes, then you feast. By feast I mean work a lot of hours and save up so you can weather the next famine. What are your skills? Do you have a portfolio? How about an up-to-date linked-in profile?
gizi 11y ago
Pick a niche (with good characteristics) and make sure to be good at things in that niche. From there on, the client or employer will obviously pay you in the way that you want (freelance or employee). The work will also be maximally interesting. I personally get a fantastic rate doing pretty much what I like from my home office.
- yoavm 11y ago
  Could you give an example of niches like that? I'm currently doing all sort of things, ranging from reverse engineering to wordpress websites (yeah, i'm a freelancer...), and I'm super curious to hear what people found out to be "good" niches and what were "bad" niches?
marknutter 11y ago
Here's my advice after 7 years of freelancing: https://medium.com/@marknutter/advice-for-the-freelance-developer-68b63c69b050#.l3iyoq8uh https://medium.com/@marknutter/advice-for-the-freelance-deve... (sorry for the blogspam, I'd repost it here but it's long and I'm too lazy to paraphrase right now)

by herval 11y ago

Do you have any advice for freelancers looking for interesting clients? I'm mostly able to find clients that either 1) want full-time employees or 2) are working on 'me-too' CRUDs (sometimes both).

lhnz 11y ago

My suggestion is actually not to find interesting clients. My suggestion is to find high-paying clients and then to become your own 'interesting' client (aka, reduce your lifestyle cost to a point in which you're able to use this money to sustain months of self-directed work). Nothing is perfect and I've no idea whether this particular idiosyncrasy would suit other people - I'm still undecided whether it's for me.

bobwaycott 11y ago
Exactly this. I've been consulting with various clients for the last 4 years. I make a few multiples more than I need to survive, and do not work more than 50% of the working days per year. This is relatively easy to achieve: - I have no debt outside of a couple school loans, which I prioritize paying down to zero. Everything else is either living expenses, or discretionary spending. - I ensure my clients pay for everything they need—hosting, Github, any and all services. This is an easy sell, as it keeps everything firmly in their control and they can replace me at any time. - I charge by the day, not the hour. My clients have never complained, and they seem to find it easier to think and budget in per-day terms.
- therealdrag0 11y ago
  Can you give more specifics on the typical project you take on? Genre/technologies/size/price.
herval 11y ago
That's basically what I've been doing. I'm not convinced that's the only possible way, which is why I asked. Working on pointless projects is fine for a short period of time (at least for me - I tried that approach multiple times in the past), but a potential source of burnout in the long run...
- therealdrag0 11y ago
  Have you considered taking a pay cut to work more full time but at a company that you think is doing valuable work? There are a lot of companies trying to "change the world", surely one lines up with your values. Though sometimes the skills they want are more specialized than generic software development (which is what I have :( ).

eswat 11y ago

Echoing with the OP said. Figure out who your ideal client is: who they are, what projects they offer, how much they pay, etc. then go to where those ideal clients would hang out. Talk to them, understand them and figure out how you can relieve whatever business discomfort they’re facing. This will take some time but you’ll eventually get a stream of the type of client that can support the lifestyle you want and want to work and refer you continuously.

awjr 11y ago

I would suggest looking in the mirror ;) Let's be honest. Freelancers are not there to find "interesting clients". They are a temporary resource that enables a client to get a job done they under-resourced. You have a choice as a freelancer 1) Become money focused. Earn as much as you can for as long as you can. 2) Become idea focused. Earn as much as you can until you have enough to bootstrap the idea. Rinse and repeat. 3) Become money focused but use your income to get the idea fleshed out using upwork.com If you can get a few of you together it will be a better experience. Working at a co-location hub can be worth it.

turnip1979 11y ago
Dumb question .. how does one go about getting started as a freelancer? Are there agencies or some other mechanism to get you started? Specifically, interested in how to get started in North America.
- Everhusk 11y ago
  There really is no secret. Just go do it. If you're serious about it then incorporating becomes a good idea to protect your assets. I would suggest starting with family and friends at reduced rates to build a portfolio.
- zzalpha 11y ago
  Find a friend or fellow techie to subcontract for. Use that as a time to learn time management, invoicing and billing, taxes, etc, while you build up a network. This is basically freelance apprenticeship. Do that for maybe a year and then start doing your own thing.
- cshipley 11y ago
  It's actually a larger question than you perhaps realize. There are different kinds of freelancing. The spectrum ranges from something that looks like "remote" work to something more akin to agency-like project work. That former is much easier. The latter pays better but requires a whole bunch of other skills, and takes much more time. The two aren't mutually exclusive however, and that is what I've done as part of my strategy. There is a monthly find a freelancer thread on here where you might be able to find a gig. Work on building your portfolio/reputation. I'd suggest small projects at reduced rates. Next, I'd visit a lawyer and get a template contract worked out. Rather than have him write one from scratch, find one that includes a lot of the things you want and have him tweak it. It will be cheaper that way. Most important (IMO) are indemnification, terms of payment, and arbitration. Get used to promoting yourself. Have your short and long "elevator pitch" together. Put together a landing page and get some business cards. Talk.To.Everyone! You never know where and when your next client will come from. One of the issues you will run into is the feast or famine issue. You never know when you will get your next client, you have to always be on the lookout and courting -- overloading the queue because a percentage will drop out. If you don't find the next soon enough, then famine. If, as it happens often, several prospects say yes, then you feast. By feast I mean work a lot of hours and save up so you can weather the next famine. What are your skills? Do you have a portfolio? How about an up-to-date linked-in profile?

gizi 11y ago

Pick a niche (with good characteristics) and make sure to be good at things in that niche. From there on, the client or employer will obviously pay you in the way that you want (freelance or employee). The work will also be maximally interesting. I personally get a fantastic rate doing pretty much what I like from my home office.

yoavm 11y ago
Could you give an example of niches like that? I'm currently doing all sort of things, ranging from reverse engineering to wordpress websites (yeah, i'm a freelancer...), and I'm super curious to hear what people found out to be "good" niches and what were "bad" niches?

marknutter 11y ago

Here's my advice after 7 years of freelancing: https://medium.com/@marknutter/advice-for-the-freelance-developer-68b63c69b050#.l3iyoq8uh https://medium.com/@marknutter/advice-for-the-freelance-deve... (sorry for the blogspam, I'd repost it here but it's long and I'm too lazy to paraphrase right now)