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You actually have to install something to get this graph? In Brazil you get a graph of your consumption for the last 12 months. printed with the bill every mon

by gcb 17y ago

You actually have to install something to get this graph? In Brazil you get a graph of your consumption for the last 12 months. printed with the bill every month. http://www.eletropaulo.com.br/portal/download.cfm?pasta_id=317 http://www.eletropaulo.com.br/portal/download.cfm?pasta_id=3... (page 3, item 18)

pkulak 17y ago
I get a simple graph on my bill too. But this is real-time and instantaneous measurement. There's a bit of a difference.
- jodrellblank 17y ago
  "real-time" ish. I like the way they switch a light off, then stare at the iPhone for a few seconds to tell them it's gone dark. ;) Joking aside, I didn't know meters had "LED ports on them(IR?) and assumed these sorts of devices would have to be complex and measure current somehow. It's another place where I think "great, but I don't want it streaming to the cloud, can't I host it myself?". Follow up thought: I'll be much more willing to host things myself for internal use when SSDs are common enough to mean small computers can be completely silent.
  - wesley 17y ago
    For this particular device it would mean that they would loose their monthly subscription (as I don't think people would accept to pay a monthly fee for a clientside app). This is their business model.
    - jodrellblank 17y ago
      It seems terrible to have a device in my house measuring electricity (the meter), then put a reader on it, stream the data over wifi, over the internet, to a company with a bank of servers and several full time employees then process it then stream it back over the mobile phone network, all in the interest of saving energy.
      - tomharrisonjr 17y ago
        I think the folks at WattVision would concur completely. It's kind of crazy, and the idea of Smart Meters would eliminate the light sensor and wire part of the deal. I would guess that WattVision and the others in this growing market are banking on the idea that 1) the electric utilities in the US move incredibly slowly, and 2) it's not just about electricity, and even if you got a smart meter for electricity, those of us who live in cold places tend to heat with natural gas and oil -- in my house our electricity use is only 20% of our total energy use (kWh of electricity compared to kWh of gas). In other words, this market may be like the fax machine, which was made obsolete by the Internet almost before it was introduced three decades or so ago ... yet, they're still around :-).
        electromagnetic 17y ago
        I still wonder why the fax machine is in such use when it offers lower reliability than the internet, I wonder if it's for security reasons. The worst you'll ever got through fax is either hatemail or someone photocopying their butt and faxing you it. However, your entire system can be taken down if you're not properly protected from receiving a single malicious email. Now, back to the topic. I live in southern Ontario and virtually every building is heated by natural gas, and in more rural locals oil is more common, however the prices have begun matching between gas and oil where it has to be delivered. The only properties I see that are heated electrically are in apartment buildings where heat is only truly lost through far less than 1/6th of your property's surface area.
        tomharrisonjr 17y ago
        I guess my point on heat was that a thing that I think needs to be done with all of these monitors is to add other kinds of household energy uses (like nat gas, oil) to the electrical data already being captured. Natural gas is usually delivered in units of energy called "therms", oil is delivered by the gallon (or litre), and electricity is delivered by the kWh -- all of these measures of energy can be converted into kWh so could be displayed together in a single display.
      - 17y ago
  - gridspy 17y ago
    There is a led on the side of many meters that flashes faster as you use more power. Usually it flashes 3600 times for every kWh, so if you have a small bar heater on (1 kw Load) it will flash once per second. Watt vision counts these pulses. While keeping it simple, it does mean that WattVision is at the mercy of an existing meter to work.
- axod 17y ago
  In the UK you can get this from your supplier. They send you out a little unit that shows your current usage, cost etc etc.
  - tomharrisonjr 17y ago
    I think the device is called "Alert Me", or perhaps they are using The Owl or the CurrentCost.
tomharrisonjr 17y ago
I got the same graph on my bill. It was helpful. But when I turn on a light, the graph updates in a few seconds. It's brilliant (but then, well, I have a crush on it, according to energycircle.com)
breck 17y ago
> graph of your consumption for the last 12 months Monthly graphs would be somewhat helpful. For example, you could decipher that the AC uses a lot of power if the graph spikes in summer. Daily graphs would be way more helpful. For example, you can see how much you saved on a day where you were out and used no power. Hourly graphs would be still more helpful. If you knew you watched TV from 8-9, you could see the cost of an hour of TV. Real time graphs are the ultimate. Not only do you get all the benefits of the above graphs, but you can go around your house flipping switches and see exactly how much each appliance costs to run. You can spend an hour messing around and reduce your power bill significantly--a savings which you'll realize every month.
- wesley 17y ago
  I don't need this device to tell me that standby devices waste power. Just install some power strips and turn it off completely. I don't see much other use for a device like this if you've already eliminated standby devices. Sure, it can tell you that your fridge is wasting alot of electricity, but that's what the energy labels are for (A++ etc)
  - dandelany 17y ago
    If you're already very energy-conscious, I can see your point. However, most people probably don't think about how much power their standby (and operational, but unnecessary) devices consume. An analogy: I don't need Mint to tell me I waste money. Of course, I try to minimize the amount of money that I waste, but some is inevitably spend on stupid things. However, Mint is a tool that helps me identify exactly when and where I'm wasting the most money, which informs the financial decisions I make.
    - wesley 17y ago
      Well, I don't think those people would even buy such a device. Only people that are aware of their energy usage and actively want to reduce it would want a device like this. Of course if they got a deal with an energy supplier and got this installed for free in all houses it'd be a different matter entirely.

by gcb 17y ago

pkulak 17y ago

I get a simple graph on my bill too. But this is real-time and instantaneous measurement. There's a bit of a difference.

jodrellblank 17y ago
"real-time" ish. I like the way they switch a light off, then stare at the iPhone for a few seconds to tell them it's gone dark. ;) Joking aside, I didn't know meters had "LED ports on them(IR?) and assumed these sorts of devices would have to be complex and measure current somehow. It's another place where I think "great, but I don't want it streaming to the cloud, can't I host it myself?". Follow up thought: I'll be much more willing to host things myself for internal use when SSDs are common enough to mean small computers can be completely silent.
- wesley 17y ago
  For this particular device it would mean that they would loose their monthly subscription (as I don't think people would accept to pay a monthly fee for a clientside app). This is their business model.
  - jodrellblank 17y ago
    It seems terrible to have a device in my house measuring electricity (the meter), then put a reader on it, stream the data over wifi, over the internet, to a company with a bank of servers and several full time employees then process it then stream it back over the mobile phone network, all in the interest of saving energy.
    - tomharrisonjr 17y ago
      I think the folks at WattVision would concur completely. It's kind of crazy, and the idea of Smart Meters would eliminate the light sensor and wire part of the deal. I would guess that WattVision and the others in this growing market are banking on the idea that 1) the electric utilities in the US move incredibly slowly, and 2) it's not just about electricity, and even if you got a smart meter for electricity, those of us who live in cold places tend to heat with natural gas and oil -- in my house our electricity use is only 20% of our total energy use (kWh of electricity compared to kWh of gas). In other words, this market may be like the fax machine, which was made obsolete by the Internet almost before it was introduced three decades or so ago ... yet, they're still around :-).
      - electromagnetic 17y ago
        I still wonder why the fax machine is in such use when it offers lower reliability than the internet, I wonder if it's for security reasons. The worst you'll ever got through fax is either hatemail or someone photocopying their butt and faxing you it. However, your entire system can be taken down if you're not properly protected from receiving a single malicious email. Now, back to the topic. I live in southern Ontario and virtually every building is heated by natural gas, and in more rural locals oil is more common, however the prices have begun matching between gas and oil where it has to be delivered. The only properties I see that are heated electrically are in apartment buildings where heat is only truly lost through far less than 1/6th of your property's surface area.
        tomharrisonjr 17y ago
        I guess my point on heat was that a thing that I think needs to be done with all of these monitors is to add other kinds of household energy uses (like nat gas, oil) to the electrical data already being captured. Natural gas is usually delivered in units of energy called "therms", oil is delivered by the gallon (or litre), and electricity is delivered by the kWh -- all of these measures of energy can be converted into kWh so could be displayed together in a single display.
    - 17y ago
- gridspy 17y ago
  There is a led on the side of many meters that flashes faster as you use more power. Usually it flashes 3600 times for every kWh, so if you have a small bar heater on (1 kw Load) it will flash once per second. Watt vision counts these pulses. While keeping it simple, it does mean that WattVision is at the mercy of an existing meter to work.
axod 17y ago
In the UK you can get this from your supplier. They send you out a little unit that shows your current usage, cost etc etc.
- tomharrisonjr 17y ago
  I think the device is called "Alert Me", or perhaps they are using The Owl or the CurrentCost.

tomharrisonjr 17y ago

I got the same graph on my bill. It was helpful. But when I turn on a light, the graph updates in a few seconds. It's brilliant (but then, well, I have a crush on it, according to energycircle.com)

breck 17y ago

> graph of your consumption for the last 12 months Monthly graphs would be somewhat helpful. For example, you could decipher that the AC uses a lot of power if the graph spikes in summer. Daily graphs would be way more helpful. For example, you can see how much you saved on a day where you were out and used no power. Hourly graphs would be still more helpful. If you knew you watched TV from 8-9, you could see the cost of an hour of TV. Real time graphs are the ultimate. Not only do you get all the benefits of the above graphs, but you can go around your house flipping switches and see exactly how much each appliance costs to run. You can spend an hour messing around and reduce your power bill significantly--a savings which you'll realize every month.

wesley 17y ago
I don't need this device to tell me that standby devices waste power. Just install some power strips and turn it off completely. I don't see much other use for a device like this if you've already eliminated standby devices. Sure, it can tell you that your fridge is wasting alot of electricity, but that's what the energy labels are for (A++ etc)
- dandelany 17y ago
  If you're already very energy-conscious, I can see your point. However, most people probably don't think about how much power their standby (and operational, but unnecessary) devices consume. An analogy: I don't need Mint to tell me I waste money. Of course, I try to minimize the amount of money that I waste, but some is inevitably spend on stupid things. However, Mint is a tool that helps me identify exactly when and where I'm wasting the most money, which informs the financial decisions I make.
  - wesley 17y ago
    Well, I don't think those people would even buy such a device. Only people that are aware of their energy usage and actively want to reduce it would want a device like this. Of course if they got a deal with an energy supplier and got this installed for free in all houses it'd be a different matter entirely.