3 ms·

Wouldn't $50/hr be pretty low for NYC software engineering?

by philipn 17y ago

andrewljohnson 17y ago
I had the same thought, but... I would say that $50/hour is a fine wage for your first gig, no matter where you are. However, that's not a reasonable long-term salary. Even if you bill out 2000 hours a year, you walk away with 100K. Then, you still need to pay taxes, insurance, and save for retirement. It's like making less than 50K at a job with benefits, except you work twice as much. A $50/hour wage is not bad to start, but a long-term contractor needs to command above $100/hour, more like $200 in NYC. I think my first contracting gig paid something like $8/hour. I did a website for someone for a flat fee, and it took me longer than I hoped :)
- rjurney 17y ago
  Agreed. Its much easier to ask for $100 with a track record at $50, a reference, etc. Then ask for more as demand dictates. The ideal situation is to build your demand and clientele to the point that you get $200+ for the most demanding work that requires the least time.
- petercooper 17y ago
  However, that's not a reasonable long-term salary. [..] you walk away with 100K [..] It's like making less than 50K at a job with benefits I'm glad that there are people who believe that 50K isn't a reasonable salary, because if you get used to spending less than half that, you can deal with almost any crisis while everyone else gets into panic mode as soon as they're out of work for a month or can't pay for fancy private schools or bizarrely structured retirement funds :-) NYC's expensive, sure, but 50K is above even the NYC median personal income (and to the best of my research, just above the median NYC household income too).
ronnier 17y ago
Minus at least 30%, probably more in NYC, for taxes. It will probably be more towards $25/hr.
encoderer 17y ago
He's 22.
- teej 17y ago
  How much you get paid is a function of your perceived value and your employers budget. Age can affect the former, but only if you let it.
  - patio11 17y ago
    Don't forget "negotiating skill", which on a thousands-of-dollars-per-minute-of-effort-expended basis is probably the most valuable thing you'll learn in your life. Many young engineers a few years out of college haven't learn fundamentals like "It is OK to say 'No' and ask for more money. That's how the game works. It isn't being 'greedy' or 'a difficult person'."
  - encoderer 17y ago
    This is the kind of new age crap that made that article nearly unreadable. How much you get paid is a function of the market. Period. Because the job market works pretty efficiently in large cities. If there's an equally skilled developer of equal "perceived value" (whatever that means) whose willing to work for less than you are, you are going to have trouble maintaining a delta over the long run. And given that... yes, there are definitely 22 year olds worth, even $200/hr. But the percentage of 22 year old developers worth $200/hr is far less than the percentage of 32 year old's worth $200/hr. And if you question that... listen, it's abotu wisdom. Wisdom is difficult, it takes time. If wisdom was just about learning, we'd call it "knowledge." It's about learning and life experience. There are 40 year olds without wisdom, but show me a wise 20 year old and I'll show you a guy who stands alone, head and shoulders above his peers.
illumin8 17y ago
It sounds like he also found the job on Craigslist. I've found that most of the jobs on Craigslist are wishful thinking... must have 10+ years of CSS/JS/HTML5/J2EE/C/C+/C++ - salary is $15/hr.
- nir 17y ago
  Don't forget the 10+ years iPhone dev experience (we'll pay you in equity)
- vital101 17y ago
  I recently landed a job via Craigslist. It pays well for my region(Michigan) and seems to be a great company to work for so far. I have a feeling I'm the exception though, not the rule.
- lsc 17y ago
  eh, craigslist runs the gamut. I once scored a $200/hr gig back when that was 3x my normal rate off craigslist.

Wouldn't $50/hr be pretty low for NYC software engineering?

by philipn 17y ago

Wouldn't $50/hr be pretty low for NYC software engineering?

I had the same thought, but... I would say that $50/hour is a fine wage for your first gig, no matter where you are. However, that's not a reasonable long-term salary. Even if you bill out 2000 hours a year, you walk away with 100K. Then, you still need to pay taxes, insurance, and save for retirement. It's like making less than 50K at a job with benefits, except you work twice as much. A $50/hour wage is not bad to start, but a long-term contractor needs to command above $100/hour, more like $200 in NYC. I think my first contracting gig paid something like $8/hour. I did a website for someone for a flat fee, and it took me longer than I hoped :)

rjurney 17y ago
Agreed. Its much easier to ask for $100 with a track record at $50, a reference, etc. Then ask for more as demand dictates. The ideal situation is to build your demand and clientele to the point that you get $200+ for the most demanding work that requires the least time.
petercooper 17y ago
However, that's not a reasonable long-term salary. [..] you walk away with 100K [..] It's like making less than 50K at a job with benefits I'm glad that there are people who believe that 50K isn't a reasonable salary, because if you get used to spending less than half that, you can deal with almost any crisis while everyone else gets into panic mode as soon as they're out of work for a month or can't pay for fancy private schools or bizarrely structured retirement funds :-) NYC's expensive, sure, but 50K is above even the NYC median personal income (and to the best of my research, just above the median NYC household income too).

ronnier 17y ago

Minus at least 30%, probably more in NYC, for taxes. It will probably be more towards $25/hr.

encoderer 17y ago

He's 22.

teej 17y ago
How much you get paid is a function of your perceived value and your employers budget. Age can affect the former, but only if you let it.
- patio11 17y ago
  Don't forget "negotiating skill", which on a thousands-of-dollars-per-minute-of-effort-expended basis is probably the most valuable thing you'll learn in your life. Many young engineers a few years out of college haven't learn fundamentals like "It is OK to say 'No' and ask for more money. That's how the game works. It isn't being 'greedy' or 'a difficult person'."
- encoderer 17y ago
  This is the kind of new age crap that made that article nearly unreadable. How much you get paid is a function of the market. Period. Because the job market works pretty efficiently in large cities. If there's an equally skilled developer of equal "perceived value" (whatever that means) whose willing to work for less than you are, you are going to have trouble maintaining a delta over the long run. And given that... yes, there are definitely 22 year olds worth, even $200/hr. But the percentage of 22 year old developers worth $200/hr is far less than the percentage of 32 year old's worth $200/hr. And if you question that... listen, it's abotu wisdom. Wisdom is difficult, it takes time. If wisdom was just about learning, we'd call it "knowledge." It's about learning and life experience. There are 40 year olds without wisdom, but show me a wise 20 year old and I'll show you a guy who stands alone, head and shoulders above his peers.

illumin8 17y ago

It sounds like he also found the job on Craigslist. I've found that most of the jobs on Craigslist are wishful thinking... must have 10+ years of CSS/JS/HTML5/J2EE/C/C+/C++ - salary is $15/hr.

nir 17y ago
Don't forget the 10+ years iPhone dev experience (we'll pay you in equity)
vital101 17y ago
I recently landed a job via Craigslist. It pays well for my region(Michigan) and seems to be a great company to work for so far. I have a feeling I'm the exception though, not the rule.
lsc 17y ago
eh, craigslist runs the gamut. I once scored a $200/hr gig back when that was 3x my normal rate off craigslist.