3 ms·

Thing is, HTML is a really fantastic and powerful way of describing documents. But it's absolutely terrible at describing UIs. I know it'll never happen, but

Thing is, HTML is a really fantastic and powerful way of describing documents. But it's absolutely terrible at describing UIs. I know it'll never happen, but if we had a layer created specifically to deal with UI then the web could have a chance at becoming a great software platform.

devil1591 11y ago
XUL?
tosseraccount 11y ago
No one has solved the lean,powerful, portable GUI API problem. It'd be nice to write a program that can distributed as a single file for the target OS: iOS, Android, Linux, Windows, OSX, DOM. Though not very powerful and very slow, javascript is pretty easy.
- icedchai 11y ago
  Too bad Sun screwed up with Java on the client. We could've had this 20 years ago.
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    Or, speaking of Sun, something akin to NeWS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS
    - icedchai 11y ago
      NeWS looks interesting, though unfortunately a little before my time. My first experience with SunOS was SunOS 4.x on a Sun-3 (3/60, I think?) in the early 90's, and by that time everything was X-based, I believe.
- SFjulie1 11y ago
  wish is downloadable for all these platforms. The reason why it was not "pushed" is SUN edited it. It was internally competing with java, like oak that seems interesting too. http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/javaorigin.html http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/javaorigin.html
- mamcx 11y ago
  Delphi have it close. Unfortunally the tool cost a lot: http://www.embarcadero.com/products/rad-studio/firemonkey http://www.embarcadero.com/products/rad-studio/firemonkey
  - snaky 11y ago
    Lazarus is free and open-source.
    - mamcx 11y ago
      Yes, but is not that polished, and the look/feel is akward across OS
ktRolster 11y ago
> Thing is, HTML is a really fantastic and powerful way of describing documents. Meh. Postscript (and PDF, for that matter) do a better job describing the appearance of a document: you can place things exactly where you want them on the page. SGML does a better job describing the semantic meaning of the page (though arguably no one does it well): a <p> isn't really very descriptive. As you mention, HTML is lousy at UIs. HTML tries to do too many things, and ends up doing all of them poorly.
- golergka 11y ago
  What you describe is a way to describe pages, not documents.
- snaky 11y ago
  PostScript is a Turing-complete programming language after all.
coliveira 11y ago
HTML is a technology that was stretched too far in the wrong way. When Tim Barners-Lee invented HTML the idea was to describe simple documents semantically, and even embedded images were just an extension of the original idea. When the web became a commercial success, engineers tried to make HTML fit every conceivable need, including making it a UI description language, which it is not. The result is the mess of technologies we have nowadays. It is not a sane system. And still, several people try to defend it and push the envelop even further away from its original intent without exploring alternative technologies.

devil1591 11y ago

XUL?

tosseraccount 11y ago

No one has solved the lean,powerful, portable GUI API problem. It'd be nice to write a program that can distributed as a single file for the target OS: iOS, Android, Linux, Windows, OSX, DOM. Though not very powerful and very slow, javascript is pretty easy.

icedchai 11y ago
Too bad Sun screwed up with Java on the client. We could've had this 20 years ago.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  Or, speaking of Sun, something akin to NeWS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS
  - icedchai 11y ago
    NeWS looks interesting, though unfortunately a little before my time. My first experience with SunOS was SunOS 4.x on a Sun-3 (3/60, I think?) in the early 90's, and by that time everything was X-based, I believe.
SFjulie1 11y ago
wish is downloadable for all these platforms. The reason why it was not "pushed" is SUN edited it. It was internally competing with java, like oak that seems interesting too. http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/javaorigin.html http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/javaorigin.html
mamcx 11y ago
Delphi have it close. Unfortunally the tool cost a lot: http://www.embarcadero.com/products/rad-studio/firemonkey http://www.embarcadero.com/products/rad-studio/firemonkey
- snaky 11y ago
  Lazarus is free and open-source.
  - mamcx 11y ago
    Yes, but is not that polished, and the look/feel is akward across OS

ktRolster 11y ago

> Thing is, HTML is a really fantastic and powerful way of describing documents. Meh. Postscript (and PDF, for that matter) do a better job describing the appearance of a document: you can place things exactly where you want them on the page. SGML does a better job describing the semantic meaning of the page (though arguably no one does it well): a <p> isn't really very descriptive. As you mention, HTML is lousy at UIs. HTML tries to do too many things, and ends up doing all of them poorly.

golergka 11y ago
What you describe is a way to describe pages, not documents.
snaky 11y ago
PostScript is a Turing-complete programming language after all.

coliveira 11y ago

HTML is a technology that was stretched too far in the wrong way. When Tim Barners-Lee invented HTML the idea was to describe simple documents semantically, and even embedded images were just an extension of the original idea. When the web became a commercial success, engineers tried to make HTML fit every conceivable need, including making it a UI description language, which it is not. The result is the mess of technologies we have nowadays. It is not a sane system. And still, several people try to defend it and push the envelop even further away from its original intent without exploring alternative technologies.