4 ms·

When someone has spent years hiding compulsions, tics, tendencies, mood swings, panic attacks, delusions, irrational fears, and other neurotic behaviors, it's n

When someone has spent years hiding compulsions, tics, tendencies, mood swings, panic attacks, delusions, irrational fears, and other neurotic behaviors, it's not as simple as "training yourself" out of it. > until one takes responsibility for the problems they're facing and stops hoping for an easy fix... You have just delivered a more eloquently articulated version of the "be a man and suck it up" mentality that does way more harm than good. This sort of reductionist hand waving does not result in useful or practical advice. I suspect it is coming from your limited experience with these issues. EDIT: I also find it gross that you consider getting help from a psychologist an attempt to find a "easy fix". As if sufferers don't put in A LOT of additional effort themselves...

jsprogrammer 11y ago
What health-care did you require? It is hard to imagine a scenario where someone can "become better" without having an internal, personal, change. I don't believe psychiatrists can think for you (though they can certainly feed you thoughts).
- autoreleasepool 11y ago
  > I don't believe psychiatrists can think for you (though they can certainly feed you thoughts). Right... like I said, it takes A LOT of effort on the suffers part. It's none of you business, but I take an SSRI and do cognitive behavioral therapy for OCD. The behavioral therapy is for learning and developing good habits and the medication helps prevent intrusive and obsessive thoughts. Nobody is "thinking for me" (It saddens me that this is the prejudice you have). These professionals help me help myself, by giving me tools, information, and guidelines I would not have access to otherwise. A college-level course on object oriented programming isn't going to magically make you a good Java developer, but it may help you learn in a more sophisticated way than a self-taught curriculum. Either way, you wouldn't shame someone for "not helping themselves" or "taking the easy way out" by enrolling in such a course.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    >Nobody is "thinking for me" (It saddens me that this is the prejudice you have). As I said, I don't think that is possible. I only meant to counter-point your point: >it's not as simple as "training yourself" out of it. In some sense, it is that simple, as that is really the only base tool that one can access (probably why CBT is so helpful). That is, no one else can 'train you out of it'; they might be able to show you the door, but you have to walk through it.
    - autoreleasepool 11y ago
      No, it's not that simple. You're actually contradicting yourself a lot so I'm debating if it's worth replying. > (probably why CBT is so helpful) I'd say the medication is more helpful, to be honest. BTW, "that's probably why CBT is so helpful" does not follow from "training yourself is the only base tool that one can access". CBT is not at all training yourself. It's almost literally the opposite.
      - jsprogrammer 11y ago
        Please list a self-contradiction.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  Plus there is that whole cargo-cult thing that happens with psychology, wherein anyone can read a few books about it and suddenly know there is, really, to know about a subject that won't ever subject itself to qualification. Help can be had beyond the authoritarian social structures imposed by officiated academic pursuit of control over another persons mind.
alexashka 11y ago
I don't think you're hearing me. You took my message of how dealing with psychological issues is like poking at random in the dark, which's my way of saying these things are very tricky, and turned it into how I'm marginalizing people with difficulties. I don't know if you yourself are aware but I'll point it out for others - some people will hear 10 paragraphs of encouragement, find 1 sentence that they have a mild reaction to and only focus on that. I've done it myself when I was younger (and nowadays too every now and again :)) - I'd come into a discussion emotionally charged and sure enough, whatever mild version of not seeing eye to eye popped up, I was there to get upset about it. I was perpetually upset with how 'everyone else is dumb' at the time. In reality, I was just young and lacked perspective, which made me quite annoying to be around, which resulted in difficulties with making friends, and on and on. Which's my way of saying hey, I'm actually well versed in difficulties or else I wouldn't be talking about them. One tip I'd give that I wish someone gave me (they probably did and I didn't listen :)) is to cease thinking others ought to act a certain way. They don't have to anything and they won't. You have to adjust if you don't want to live the rest of your life getting upset at others. The world isn't going to adjust for you, unless you can isolate yourself into a bubble where people act a way you deem acceptable and never leave. That's usually people just being alone, which sucks if you're being honest with yourself.
- autoreleasepool 11y ago
  > I don't think you're hearing me. ...followed by a 4 paragraph ad hominem (I'm young and lonely is your implication?) explaining why you think this. Wouldn't it have been more productive to reiterate what you think I missed? Because I still have no clue what you're talking about.
johnmaguire2013 11y ago
> until one takes responsibility for the problems they're facing and stops hoping for an easy fix... As someone who struggled with a lot of mental illness growing up, and had many friends who did as well, I disagree with your interpretation of this phrase. I've frequently said to some of my friends who are caught in a vicious cycle of depression or dependence: You can't help someone who doesn't want help. Mental illness finds mental illness. Especially with kids. This is good and bad. It helps you to find support, but it also encourages a vicious cycle where each person is enabling each other. Tumblr is a great example of this. But when one person is trying so desperately to help someone in a bad spot, that refuses help, there's nothing you can do. And beating your head against a brick wall has never helped anyone. Addiction has long been known to work the same way: You can't stop an addict from getting drugs, you can only try to help them stay clean when they make the choice to.
- autoreleasepool 11y ago
  I have a friend like this. He refuses to help himself and therefore fails to get better. I 100% agree helping yourself is a necessary component for recovery. What I take offense at is when "seeking medical treatment" is so tightly coupled with "seeking an easy fix". The two concepts are orthogonal. Anecdotal, but the amount of courage it took to finally seek medical treatment made it the toughest fix I ever sought out. The pressure to try do anything else BUT THAT made it difficult to think critically about the issue. I was also very real concern about embarrassing my parents. For me, seeing a doctor was ultimate last line of treatment after years of shitty self-help books and introspection; never truly knowing what exactly was wrong. Luckily, it has bee most effective.

jsprogrammer 11y ago

What health-care did you require? It is hard to imagine a scenario where someone can "become better" without having an internal, personal, change. I don't believe psychiatrists can think for you (though they can certainly feed you thoughts).

autoreleasepool 11y ago
> I don't believe psychiatrists can think for you (though they can certainly feed you thoughts). Right... like I said, it takes A LOT of effort on the suffers part. It's none of you business, but I take an SSRI and do cognitive behavioral therapy for OCD. The behavioral therapy is for learning and developing good habits and the medication helps prevent intrusive and obsessive thoughts. Nobody is "thinking for me" (It saddens me that this is the prejudice you have). These professionals help me help myself, by giving me tools, information, and guidelines I would not have access to otherwise. A college-level course on object oriented programming isn't going to magically make you a good Java developer, but it may help you learn in a more sophisticated way than a self-taught curriculum. Either way, you wouldn't shame someone for "not helping themselves" or "taking the easy way out" by enrolling in such a course.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  >Nobody is "thinking for me" (It saddens me that this is the prejudice you have). As I said, I don't think that is possible. I only meant to counter-point your point: >it's not as simple as "training yourself" out of it. In some sense, it is that simple, as that is really the only base tool that one can access (probably why CBT is so helpful). That is, no one else can 'train you out of it'; they might be able to show you the door, but you have to walk through it.
  - autoreleasepool 11y ago
    No, it's not that simple. You're actually contradicting yourself a lot so I'm debating if it's worth replying. > (probably why CBT is so helpful) I'd say the medication is more helpful, to be honest. BTW, "that's probably why CBT is so helpful" does not follow from "training yourself is the only base tool that one can access". CBT is not at all training yourself. It's almost literally the opposite.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      Please list a self-contradiction.
fit2rule 11y ago
Plus there is that whole cargo-cult thing that happens with psychology, wherein anyone can read a few books about it and suddenly know there is, really, to know about a subject that won't ever subject itself to qualification. Help can be had beyond the authoritarian social structures imposed by officiated academic pursuit of control over another persons mind.

alexashka 11y ago

I don't think you're hearing me. You took my message of how dealing with psychological issues is like poking at random in the dark, which's my way of saying these things are very tricky, and turned it into how I'm marginalizing people with difficulties. I don't know if you yourself are aware but I'll point it out for others - some people will hear 10 paragraphs of encouragement, find 1 sentence that they have a mild reaction to and only focus on that. I've done it myself when I was younger (and nowadays too every now and again :)) - I'd come into a discussion emotionally charged and sure enough, whatever mild version of not seeing eye to eye popped up, I was there to get upset about it. I was perpetually upset with how 'everyone else is dumb' at the time. In reality, I was just young and lacked perspective, which made me quite annoying to be around, which resulted in difficulties with making friends, and on and on. Which's my way of saying hey, I'm actually well versed in difficulties or else I wouldn't be talking about them. One tip I'd give that I wish someone gave me (they probably did and I didn't listen :)) is to cease thinking others ought to act a certain way. They don't have to anything and they won't. You have to adjust if you don't want to live the rest of your life getting upset at others. The world isn't going to adjust for you, unless you can isolate yourself into a bubble where people act a way you deem acceptable and never leave. That's usually people just being alone, which sucks if you're being honest with yourself.

autoreleasepool 11y ago
> I don't think you're hearing me. ...followed by a 4 paragraph ad hominem (I'm young and lonely is your implication?) explaining why you think this. Wouldn't it have been more productive to reiterate what you think I missed? Because I still have no clue what you're talking about.

johnmaguire2013 11y ago

> until one takes responsibility for the problems they're facing and stops hoping for an easy fix... As someone who struggled with a lot of mental illness growing up, and had many friends who did as well, I disagree with your interpretation of this phrase. I've frequently said to some of my friends who are caught in a vicious cycle of depression or dependence: You can't help someone who doesn't want help. Mental illness finds mental illness. Especially with kids. This is good and bad. It helps you to find support, but it also encourages a vicious cycle where each person is enabling each other. Tumblr is a great example of this. But when one person is trying so desperately to help someone in a bad spot, that refuses help, there's nothing you can do. And beating your head against a brick wall has never helped anyone. Addiction has long been known to work the same way: You can't stop an addict from getting drugs, you can only try to help them stay clean when they make the choice to.

autoreleasepool 11y ago
I have a friend like this. He refuses to help himself and therefore fails to get better. I 100% agree helping yourself is a necessary component for recovery. What I take offense at is when "seeking medical treatment" is so tightly coupled with "seeking an easy fix". The two concepts are orthogonal. Anecdotal, but the amount of courage it took to finally seek medical treatment made it the toughest fix I ever sought out. The pressure to try do anything else BUT THAT made it difficult to think critically about the issue. I was also very real concern about embarrassing my parents. For me, seeing a doctor was ultimate last line of treatment after years of shitty self-help books and introspection; never truly knowing what exactly was wrong. Luckily, it has bee most effective.