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While I certainly wouldn't affirm what your parents did or suggest it to be a preferred course of action, I'd also hesitate to suggest taking a child to Psychia

While I certainly wouldn't affirm what your parents did or suggest it to be a preferred course of action, I'd also hesitate to suggest taking a child to Psychiatrists as any sort of knee jerk reaction. While you say you'd have had a better academic life if the "add is bullshit" meme was gone, mine would have been far better if the meme caught on faster. I hope you understand my wanting to disclose the following on a throwaway, but I was medicated HEAVILY for "ADD" for the vast majority of 2nd through 4th grade, and to this day some of my strangest memories are from those years, during which I developed broad slews of physical ticks and OCD-like behaviors that took me decades to train myself out of, and certainly compounded the damage to my learning and social development that the medication had already begun. I would be TERRIFIED if psychological checkups became routine, and see that as near-dystopian as some aspects of brave new world. For so many people (I say this now being married to a psychologist of my own) including myself are diagnosed with disorders of extremely variable diagnostic validity at extremely young ages (beyond even what the DSM, with its already spotty contents, would recommend) and then medicated past functionality and/or told we have something wrong with us. What would have helped me? If instead of being told "you need these pills to fix you" someone told me that "normal is a spectrum", and people even with behaviors we love to tag with fancy names and try and treat can learn to control them and live perfectly normal lives without drastic intervention. Don't take this as a "we should ignore psychological disorders", it's not the intent at all. Take it as a, I've seen the culture that arises out of LOOKING for mental issues rather than encouraging growth and maturation, and I'd rather resort to a psychological approach as we do with antibiotics, _when needed and after extensive exploration of other options_, lest we unconsciously do ourselves further disservice. Although I have a different takeaway than you though, I'd echo the same guiding thought, "don't assume he or she is lazy or doesn't want to succeed" but would append "or assume they are broken."

autoreleasepool 11y ago
I think you're conflating psychological therapy with psychiatric treatment. Bad diagnoses happen in every medical field. There are plenty of bad doctors, bad therapists, bad social workers, bad lawyers, etc... It doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with these professions. People in general are flawed. I'm sorry about what happened to you. That being said, I don't think your anecdote is representative of the typical result of mental health care. Surely we would have less school shootings and smaller prison populations if we ended the fear mongering and stigmas associated with mental health and had more routine psychological evaluations. For the record, 2nd grade is, IMO, way too young to start any kind of stimulant. I don't have ADD, but I do know "ADD/ADHD denial" can be the gateway drug for thinking other mental health acronyms are bullshit too.
- alexashka 11y ago
  I think you're deeply misunderstanding the underlying reasons for school shootings and disproportionately large prison populations. It is like saying if we gave each homeless person money, we'd fix homelessness. Now just replace homelessness with psychological issues and money with psychologist.
  - autoreleasepool 11y ago
    > think you're deeply misunderstanding the underlying reasons for school shootings and disproportionately large prison populations. No, the underlying reasons I gave are factual. http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21582535-costly-criminalisation-mentally-ill-locked http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21582535-costly-...
    - da1 11y ago
      Nowhere in that article is there a mention of school shootings. Not even indirectly. You are not acting in good faith.
      - autoreleasepool 11y ago
        It's over. Stop trolling me. That was an article about the decline of menta health care and the absurd rise in prison populations that went along with it. Which is half of what we were talking about. You are either a troll or an antipschiatry zealot.
        da1 11y ago
        You mentioned specifically school shootings and gave that article as a source. In no way did it address the issue. Stop poisoning the discussion with unrelated sources that in no way support your points. People that read your comment might be under the impression that the article had any relevance. It didn't in any way. Pointing that your sources in no way support your views is not trolling. You're just using ad hominem again in order to not be challenged. It won't work. Give it up.
alexashka 11y ago
I think the parent had a very positive experience with a good psychologist and has extrapolated that to think everyone would benefit from coming in contact with the quality professional that he/she was in contact with. Which's another way of saying 'it is nice to meet people who are really good at what they do and can happen to help you'. The flip-side is what you're describing - that most people are not that good at what they do and ultimately - it is usually a frustrating and tedious process of poking in the dark until something works. For psychological issues it's often a slew of things and having one person make a significant difference in your life is a little miracle. The thing I like that you mentioned is that you trained yourself out of behaviours that you found to be counter-productive. Which's largely my point - until one takes responsibility for the problems they're facing and stops hoping for an easy fix, it is unlikely to work out in the longterm and I don't know that a psychologist is capable of making somebody a life-long learner if you're not one to begin with. 'When a student is ready, a teacher appears' :)
- autoreleasepool 11y ago
  When someone has spent years hiding compulsions, tics, tendencies, mood swings, panic attacks, delusions, irrational fears, and other neurotic behaviors, it's not as simple as "training yourself" out of it. > until one takes responsibility for the problems they're facing and stops hoping for an easy fix... You have just delivered a more eloquently articulated version of the "be a man and suck it up" mentality that does way more harm than good. This sort of reductionist hand waving does not result in useful or practical advice. I suspect it is coming from your limited experience with these issues. EDIT: I also find it gross that you consider getting help from a psychologist an attempt to find a "easy fix". As if sufferers don't put in A LOT of additional effort themselves...
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    What health-care did you require? It is hard to imagine a scenario where someone can "become better" without having an internal, personal, change. I don't believe psychiatrists can think for you (though they can certainly feed you thoughts).
paulddraper 11y ago
It's a well known phenomenon that new psychology students will learn about disorders and suddenly start to see the symptoms in themselves, even though in reality the "abnormalities" are 1/30th of what would be an actual issue. In other words, it's very easy to develop psychological hypochondria. Perhaps it's because of the lack of visibility of the condition.

autoreleasepool 11y ago

I think you're conflating psychological therapy with psychiatric treatment. Bad diagnoses happen in every medical field. There are plenty of bad doctors, bad therapists, bad social workers, bad lawyers, etc... It doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with these professions. People in general are flawed. I'm sorry about what happened to you. That being said, I don't think your anecdote is representative of the typical result of mental health care. Surely we would have less school shootings and smaller prison populations if we ended the fear mongering and stigmas associated with mental health and had more routine psychological evaluations. For the record, 2nd grade is, IMO, way too young to start any kind of stimulant. I don't have ADD, but I do know "ADD/ADHD denial" can be the gateway drug for thinking other mental health acronyms are bullshit too.

alexashka 11y ago
I think you're deeply misunderstanding the underlying reasons for school shootings and disproportionately large prison populations. It is like saying if we gave each homeless person money, we'd fix homelessness. Now just replace homelessness with psychological issues and money with psychologist.
- autoreleasepool 11y ago
  > think you're deeply misunderstanding the underlying reasons for school shootings and disproportionately large prison populations. No, the underlying reasons I gave are factual. http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21582535-costly-criminalisation-mentally-ill-locked http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21582535-costly-...
  - da1 11y ago
    Nowhere in that article is there a mention of school shootings. Not even indirectly. You are not acting in good faith.
    - autoreleasepool 11y ago
      It's over. Stop trolling me. That was an article about the decline of menta health care and the absurd rise in prison populations that went along with it. Which is half of what we were talking about. You are either a troll or an antipschiatry zealot.
      - da1 11y ago
        You mentioned specifically school shootings and gave that article as a source. In no way did it address the issue. Stop poisoning the discussion with unrelated sources that in no way support your points. People that read your comment might be under the impression that the article had any relevance. It didn't in any way. Pointing that your sources in no way support your views is not trolling. You're just using ad hominem again in order to not be challenged. It won't work. Give it up.

alexashka 11y ago

I think the parent had a very positive experience with a good psychologist and has extrapolated that to think everyone would benefit from coming in contact with the quality professional that he/she was in contact with. Which's another way of saying 'it is nice to meet people who are really good at what they do and can happen to help you'. The flip-side is what you're describing - that most people are not that good at what they do and ultimately - it is usually a frustrating and tedious process of poking in the dark until something works. For psychological issues it's often a slew of things and having one person make a significant difference in your life is a little miracle. The thing I like that you mentioned is that you trained yourself out of behaviours that you found to be counter-productive. Which's largely my point - until one takes responsibility for the problems they're facing and stops hoping for an easy fix, it is unlikely to work out in the longterm and I don't know that a psychologist is capable of making somebody a life-long learner if you're not one to begin with. 'When a student is ready, a teacher appears' :)

autoreleasepool 11y ago
When someone has spent years hiding compulsions, tics, tendencies, mood swings, panic attacks, delusions, irrational fears, and other neurotic behaviors, it's not as simple as "training yourself" out of it. > until one takes responsibility for the problems they're facing and stops hoping for an easy fix... You have just delivered a more eloquently articulated version of the "be a man and suck it up" mentality that does way more harm than good. This sort of reductionist hand waving does not result in useful or practical advice. I suspect it is coming from your limited experience with these issues. EDIT: I also find it gross that you consider getting help from a psychologist an attempt to find a "easy fix". As if sufferers don't put in A LOT of additional effort themselves...
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  What health-care did you require? It is hard to imagine a scenario where someone can "become better" without having an internal, personal, change. I don't believe psychiatrists can think for you (though they can certainly feed you thoughts).

paulddraper 11y ago

It's a well known phenomenon that new psychology students will learn about disorders and suddenly start to see the symptoms in themselves, even though in reality the "abnormalities" are 1/30th of what would be an actual issue. In other words, it's very easy to develop psychological hypochondria. Perhaps it's because of the lack of visibility of the condition.