12 ms·

I wish my parents had taken me to a psychologist when I was having trouble in school. Instead, I was usually punished. I was raised by conservative, psychiatrop

I wish my parents had taken me to a psychologist when I was having trouble in school. Instead, I was usually punished. I was raised by conservative, psychiatrophobic parents and I never got the help I needed until after college. I'm in my early 20's. I was lucky to have the meta-cognitive awareness needed to identify that something was wrong, and that it had gotten worse. After recently getting care from a professional my quality of life and productivity improved across the board. It almost breaks my heart how much it has helped me. I feel as if I could have been so much more successful in academia. I definitely would have led less of guilt-ridden academic life. Even if you do not have anxiety, major depression, or other disorder - I think basic psychological therapy is something almost anyone can benefit from. We like to think friends and family are all we need for help during a rough time or troubling period, but, no matter how well intentioned they might be, they are usually the least qualified to help you. It's important to have a professional to talk to in these situations. With children this is even more so. Psychiatrists can see the red-flags that others often ignore, or brush off as personality quirks. This was the case with me for long time. I would have had a better academic life if the "ADD is bullshit" meme never happened. For me, this prevalent mentality prevented me from receiving the health-care I needed, especially with regards to my very private (and personally shameful) crippling anxiety. I hope one day basic psychological check ups for children become as routine as a dentist visits. There are so many benefits to keeping tabs on your mental health and the only downside is the current social stigma. If your child is acting up, consistently has trouble with areas such as organization, or is all over the place with grades - please don't assume he or she is lazy or doesn't want to succeed. Help them by taking them to someone who can see things you cannot, and possibly find an easily solvable underlying problem.

childpsychismeh 11y ago
While I certainly wouldn't affirm what your parents did or suggest it to be a preferred course of action, I'd also hesitate to suggest taking a child to Psychiatrists as any sort of knee jerk reaction. While you say you'd have had a better academic life if the "add is bullshit" meme was gone, mine would have been far better if the meme caught on faster. I hope you understand my wanting to disclose the following on a throwaway, but I was medicated HEAVILY for "ADD" for the vast majority of 2nd through 4th grade, and to this day some of my strangest memories are from those years, during which I developed broad slews of physical ticks and OCD-like behaviors that took me decades to train myself out of, and certainly compounded the damage to my learning and social development that the medication had already begun. I would be TERRIFIED if psychological checkups became routine, and see that as near-dystopian as some aspects of brave new world. For so many people (I say this now being married to a psychologist of my own) including myself are diagnosed with disorders of extremely variable diagnostic validity at extremely young ages (beyond even what the DSM, with its already spotty contents, would recommend) and then medicated past functionality and/or told we have something wrong with us. What would have helped me? If instead of being told "you need these pills to fix you" someone told me that "normal is a spectrum", and people even with behaviors we love to tag with fancy names and try and treat can learn to control them and live perfectly normal lives without drastic intervention. Don't take this as a "we should ignore psychological disorders", it's not the intent at all. Take it as a, I've seen the culture that arises out of LOOKING for mental issues rather than encouraging growth and maturation, and I'd rather resort to a psychological approach as we do with antibiotics, _when needed and after extensive exploration of other options_, lest we unconsciously do ourselves further disservice. Although I have a different takeaway than you though, I'd echo the same guiding thought, "don't assume he or she is lazy or doesn't want to succeed" but would append "or assume they are broken."
- autoreleasepool 11y ago
  I think you're conflating psychological therapy with psychiatric treatment. Bad diagnoses happen in every medical field. There are plenty of bad doctors, bad therapists, bad social workers, bad lawyers, etc... It doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with these professions. People in general are flawed. I'm sorry about what happened to you. That being said, I don't think your anecdote is representative of the typical result of mental health care. Surely we would have less school shootings and smaller prison populations if we ended the fear mongering and stigmas associated with mental health and had more routine psychological evaluations. For the record, 2nd grade is, IMO, way too young to start any kind of stimulant. I don't have ADD, but I do know "ADD/ADHD denial" can be the gateway drug for thinking other mental health acronyms are bullshit too.
  - alexashka 11y ago
    I think you're deeply misunderstanding the underlying reasons for school shootings and disproportionately large prison populations. It is like saying if we gave each homeless person money, we'd fix homelessness. Now just replace homelessness with psychological issues and money with psychologist.
    - autoreleasepool 11y ago
      > think you're deeply misunderstanding the underlying reasons for school shootings and disproportionately large prison populations. No, the underlying reasons I gave are factual. http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21582535-costly-criminalisation-mentally-ill-locked http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21582535-costly-...
      - da1 11y ago
        Nowhere in that article is there a mention of school shootings. Not even indirectly. You are not acting in good faith.
        11y ago
siliconc0w 11y ago
Psychiatrists also have been known to over prescribe amphetamines to children. Honestly, just from personal experience, the profession seems to be marginally above chiropractors in legitimacy. Diagnosis and treatment is inconsistent and arbitrary - varying widely from practitioner to practitioner. Treatments are prescribed with "guess and check" methodologies. Longitudinal effects of many treatments aren't even known and results of many which have been eventually studied aren't good. I recognize a lot of people have net positive experiences but the profession and pharmaceutical industry surrounding it 'needs improvement'.
- johnmaguire2013 11y ago
  I have a story similar to the parent poster's. While I fully agree with you, based on my own experiences, it also saved my life. So you know, you win some, you lose some.
- da1 11y ago
  Your analysis is obviously spot on. Psychiatry is subjective at best and quackery at worst. When you write "needs improvement" I think "need a complete overhaul" would be better. Other people in this thread have already mentioned the drugging of children but I'd like to stress something else. You compare psychiatrists to chiropractors as far as legitimacy is concerned, but there is a very big difference. No one can force someone to see a chiropractor and that chiropractor can't strip you of every civil right without an accusation or a trial based on his assessment. A psychiatrist can and does that on a regular basis. This is a huge difference.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > and that chiropractor can't strip you of every civil right without an accusation or a trial based on his assessment. Sucks to be American, I guess. Here we have human rights laws which protect people with mental illness. http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Detention_mental_health_ENG.pdf http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Detention_mental_health...
    - 11y ago
alasano 11y ago
I can mirror this sentiment from my own experiences. My mom discovered the value of mental health professionals at the same time I got over being dismissive of the effectiveness of the solutions provided by modern medicine when it comes to mental health. I can't blame my parents obviously, they are amazing people with their own problems and probably in the 99th percentile when it comes to what people wish for in a good parent. It's just that they had the same mindset as many people of their generation. Psychology/Medication are dismissed or not even thought of as a solution. My mom had a difficult childhood and after starting to experience night terrors in her early 50s she went to seek help and the transformation has been nothing short of amazing. As for my own difficulties, from 16 to 25 years old my philosophy for dealing with my problems and growing was to take time whenever I could for introspection. Even if things in my life weren't going as I wanted them to go, one thing that could keep me moving forward was bettering myself by reflecting on my actions and thoughts. Meanwhile I was unknowingly crippled by a growing anxiety when it came to my studies and I wasn't the best at sharing what I felt either. I had always been considered exceptionally bright and gifted and I absolutely loved learning but slowly it seemed to get harder and harder to stay on track when doing school work. The subject matter was easy but actually getting myself to start do to the work was like having to climb a mountain before opening your books. My brain was tired before I ever started. I kept taking full time semesters at university and dropping half my classes because I couldn't keep up. The more this dragged on, the worse I felt about it. Finally I went to see my doctor and explained how I felt. I told him my brain felt like a steam locomotive and that it took an immense effort to get it moving. He was extremely helpful and made me try Methylphenidate to start. It was like having the fog cleared from my brain, suddenly I felt as I had felt all of my childhood. I was excited to learn, to work and even to wake up in the morning knowing the kind of productive days I could have. Last semester was the first time in years that I've completed a full time course load (with a 4.0 gpa, a nice improvement is an understatement). "guilt-ridden academic life" is the right way to describe it. I felt horrible about it but I couldn't get myself to quit trying even without knowing what exactly was holding me back. I felt the heartbreak too and actual tears of joy as the feeling of saudade went away and I realized I had "found" my old self again. This dragged on way more than I thought it would but overall I'm happy knowing that I will be sensitized to how mental health problems can affect your life and your overall happiness. Hopefully if my (future) child is experiencing difficulties, I'll be able to identify it and get them the help they need. Edit: I'd just like to add that I initially felt uncomfortable with the idea of medication. Why? Because so many students nowadays abuse prescription medication without having symptoms and it made me feel like I was lying to myself about needing it and that I was actually just not working hard enough.
nether 11y ago
> I hope one day basic psychological check ups for children become as routine as a dentist visits. Agreed. Everyone should have a mental health professional. I think a huge step to reduce the stigma would be for a US president to mention his own therapist, similar to how Bush mentioned his colonoscopy. This needs to be brought out into the open.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Hang on - over-testing and over-treatment is a risk of any medicine, and that's true even if there's no meds involved, only talking therapies. I do strongly agree with you that we need to reduce stigma I'm helping my local "health community" (Public Health (part of county council) Clinical Commissioning Group (part of the NHS, who buy services) and my local MH trust) to tackle stigma.
- da1 11y ago
  > Agreed. Everyone should have a mental health professional. What about an astrologer, do I need my own astrologer also? mental health professionals have very little to do with other specialties. None of those diagnosis are objectively based on hard data. As they stand they're unfounded speculation and you pressing for general testing is very scary and either ignorant or just downright malevolent.
  - meric 11y ago
    That's a good reason to not make everyone have a mental health professional. I think it's fine people can seek them out - people can subjectively evaluate whether the particular professional they're seeing is improving their life or not, and if their life subjectively feels better, then the service the mental health professional is providing is definitely of value. You're right, we don't know enough about what goes on in our minds to force it down everybody, and at the same time, people can be aware of their own selves, and I think we have to be cautious in describing how people see themselves and whether a mental professional is improving their lives, even if without hard data, as unfounded speculation.
marincounty 11y ago
I've been through the system. I've seen Psychiatriatrists and Psychologists. I can honestly say, you didn't miss much. Psychiatrists are very expensive, and very few will accept your insurance. They want cash. Before I saw these people, I just believed they would help. I had no idea their were no magic pills. In fact, I believe they have pills that were studied so terribly, they should be pulled of the market. Your problems with anxiety popped off the page. I too have battled crippling anxiety after a breakdown in grad school. You will eventually find a Psychiatrist to prescribe benzodiazepines(usually a benzo with a long half life). Yes, it works at first, but is addictive. And--that doctor will want to see you for office visits. See today, very few Psychiatrists do any real therapy. They just basically prescribe, and drag patients on for office visits. Legally they only need to see you once a year, but how are they going to make a living? Oh, it's always for your benefit though, and you will be paying for these visits. In essence, you become a hostage to these drugs. Real therapy? Exactly what is real therapy. I have no clue. I went. I cried. I paid. I felt just as bad afterwards. When they did offer advice it was just not right, or right for a previous generation. (And yes, I tried CBT.) Back to Psychiatrists, they don't do therapy, unless you have money. They basically see two to four patients an hour, and it basically just to charge for an office visit, to refill the medications they prescribe. Medications that have a huge placebo component. Medications that are addictive. Yes, it's quite a racket. Psychologists are a bit different. They can't prescribe. They can only offer talk therapy. Yes, some are very nice, and well meaning. The problem, I found, is they didn't help me in the slightest. Oh, that's my fault! I was only in therapy for one year, 2x a week, at $65 a visit. I am ashamed how I came up with that money, but thought Therapy would save my life. I could yak, on and on, but it's one thing you should probally experience first hand. It's kinda like test driving a car an older sports car. Some people will enjoy the experience. Others will wonder what all the fuss is all about. Bad analogy--just tired! I'm not giving advice. I'm just dissalusioned with the system. I've been on a prescribed, addictive drug for years. I'm trying to get off, but don't want to push it. Basically, I don't know how healthy I am. I don't want to die in a crappy detox, praying to a higher power, because I can't find a psychiatrist/doctor to refill my prescriptions. I have a feeling my doctor is getting ready to retire. I don't want to start over with a new psychiatrist who's dragging me on for an office visit every eight weeks, and charging me Whatever he/she wants. See, I'm a different person than I was years ago. I don't have the same fears/problems. I know what most psychiatrists are about to say before they say it. I don't have any big questions that need an answer. I don't need to cry. I just need my prescriptions refilled. That's it. As to "Let's look into getting you off these medications?" If you're young, and healthy it's fine! If older--it's a crap shoot. Some of the compassionate doctors will taper you off the prescribed drugs, but you have bathed your brain in a medication for years. What do you think the outcome will be?

childpsychismeh 11y ago

While I certainly wouldn't affirm what your parents did or suggest it to be a preferred course of action, I'd also hesitate to suggest taking a child to Psychiatrists as any sort of knee jerk reaction. While you say you'd have had a better academic life if the "add is bullshit" meme was gone, mine would have been far better if the meme caught on faster. I hope you understand my wanting to disclose the following on a throwaway, but I was medicated HEAVILY for "ADD" for the vast majority of 2nd through 4th grade, and to this day some of my strangest memories are from those years, during which I developed broad slews of physical ticks and OCD-like behaviors that took me decades to train myself out of, and certainly compounded the damage to my learning and social development that the medication had already begun. I would be TERRIFIED if psychological checkups became routine, and see that as near-dystopian as some aspects of brave new world. For so many people (I say this now being married to a psychologist of my own) including myself are diagnosed with disorders of extremely variable diagnostic validity at extremely young ages (beyond even what the DSM, with its already spotty contents, would recommend) and then medicated past functionality and/or told we have something wrong with us. What would have helped me? If instead of being told "you need these pills to fix you" someone told me that "normal is a spectrum", and people even with behaviors we love to tag with fancy names and try and treat can learn to control them and live perfectly normal lives without drastic intervention. Don't take this as a "we should ignore psychological disorders", it's not the intent at all. Take it as a, I've seen the culture that arises out of LOOKING for mental issues rather than encouraging growth and maturation, and I'd rather resort to a psychological approach as we do with antibiotics, _when needed and after extensive exploration of other options_, lest we unconsciously do ourselves further disservice. Although I have a different takeaway than you though, I'd echo the same guiding thought, "don't assume he or she is lazy or doesn't want to succeed" but would append "or assume they are broken."

autoreleasepool 11y ago
I think you're conflating psychological therapy with psychiatric treatment. Bad diagnoses happen in every medical field. There are plenty of bad doctors, bad therapists, bad social workers, bad lawyers, etc... It doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with these professions. People in general are flawed. I'm sorry about what happened to you. That being said, I don't think your anecdote is representative of the typical result of mental health care. Surely we would have less school shootings and smaller prison populations if we ended the fear mongering and stigmas associated with mental health and had more routine psychological evaluations. For the record, 2nd grade is, IMO, way too young to start any kind of stimulant. I don't have ADD, but I do know "ADD/ADHD denial" can be the gateway drug for thinking other mental health acronyms are bullshit too.
- alexashka 11y ago
  I think you're deeply misunderstanding the underlying reasons for school shootings and disproportionately large prison populations. It is like saying if we gave each homeless person money, we'd fix homelessness. Now just replace homelessness with psychological issues and money with psychologist.
  - autoreleasepool 11y ago
    > think you're deeply misunderstanding the underlying reasons for school shootings and disproportionately large prison populations. No, the underlying reasons I gave are factual. http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21582535-costly-criminalisation-mentally-ill-locked http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21582535-costly-...
    - da1 11y ago
      Nowhere in that article is there a mention of school shootings. Not even indirectly. You are not acting in good faith.
      - 11y ago

siliconc0w 11y ago

Psychiatrists also have been known to over prescribe amphetamines to children. Honestly, just from personal experience, the profession seems to be marginally above chiropractors in legitimacy. Diagnosis and treatment is inconsistent and arbitrary - varying widely from practitioner to practitioner. Treatments are prescribed with "guess and check" methodologies. Longitudinal effects of many treatments aren't even known and results of many which have been eventually studied aren't good. I recognize a lot of people have net positive experiences but the profession and pharmaceutical industry surrounding it 'needs improvement'.

johnmaguire2013 11y ago
I have a story similar to the parent poster's. While I fully agree with you, based on my own experiences, it also saved my life. So you know, you win some, you lose some.
da1 11y ago
Your analysis is obviously spot on. Psychiatry is subjective at best and quackery at worst. When you write "needs improvement" I think "need a complete overhaul" would be better. Other people in this thread have already mentioned the drugging of children but I'd like to stress something else. You compare psychiatrists to chiropractors as far as legitimacy is concerned, but there is a very big difference. No one can force someone to see a chiropractor and that chiropractor can't strip you of every civil right without an accusation or a trial based on his assessment. A psychiatrist can and does that on a regular basis. This is a huge difference.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > and that chiropractor can't strip you of every civil right without an accusation or a trial based on his assessment. Sucks to be American, I guess. Here we have human rights laws which protect people with mental illness. http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Detention_mental_health_ENG.pdf http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Detention_mental_health...
  - 11y ago

alasano 11y ago

I can mirror this sentiment from my own experiences. My mom discovered the value of mental health professionals at the same time I got over being dismissive of the effectiveness of the solutions provided by modern medicine when it comes to mental health. I can't blame my parents obviously, they are amazing people with their own problems and probably in the 99th percentile when it comes to what people wish for in a good parent. It's just that they had the same mindset as many people of their generation. Psychology/Medication are dismissed or not even thought of as a solution. My mom had a difficult childhood and after starting to experience night terrors in her early 50s she went to seek help and the transformation has been nothing short of amazing. As for my own difficulties, from 16 to 25 years old my philosophy for dealing with my problems and growing was to take time whenever I could for introspection. Even if things in my life weren't going as I wanted them to go, one thing that could keep me moving forward was bettering myself by reflecting on my actions and thoughts. Meanwhile I was unknowingly crippled by a growing anxiety when it came to my studies and I wasn't the best at sharing what I felt either. I had always been considered exceptionally bright and gifted and I absolutely loved learning but slowly it seemed to get harder and harder to stay on track when doing school work. The subject matter was easy but actually getting myself to start do to the work was like having to climb a mountain before opening your books. My brain was tired before I ever started. I kept taking full time semesters at university and dropping half my classes because I couldn't keep up. The more this dragged on, the worse I felt about it. Finally I went to see my doctor and explained how I felt. I told him my brain felt like a steam locomotive and that it took an immense effort to get it moving. He was extremely helpful and made me try Methylphenidate to start. It was like having the fog cleared from my brain, suddenly I felt as I had felt all of my childhood. I was excited to learn, to work and even to wake up in the morning knowing the kind of productive days I could have. Last semester was the first time in years that I've completed a full time course load (with a 4.0 gpa, a nice improvement is an understatement). "guilt-ridden academic life" is the right way to describe it. I felt horrible about it but I couldn't get myself to quit trying even without knowing what exactly was holding me back. I felt the heartbreak too and actual tears of joy as the feeling of saudade went away and I realized I had "found" my old self again. This dragged on way more than I thought it would but overall I'm happy knowing that I will be sensitized to how mental health problems can affect your life and your overall happiness. Hopefully if my (future) child is experiencing difficulties, I'll be able to identify it and get them the help they need. Edit: I'd just like to add that I initially felt uncomfortable with the idea of medication. Why? Because so many students nowadays abuse prescription medication without having symptoms and it made me feel like I was lying to myself about needing it and that I was actually just not working hard enough.

nether 11y ago

> I hope one day basic psychological check ups for children become as routine as a dentist visits. Agreed. Everyone should have a mental health professional. I think a huge step to reduce the stigma would be for a US president to mention his own therapist, similar to how Bush mentioned his colonoscopy. This needs to be brought out into the open.

DanBC 11y ago
Hang on - over-testing and over-treatment is a risk of any medicine, and that's true even if there's no meds involved, only talking therapies. I do strongly agree with you that we need to reduce stigma I'm helping my local "health community" (Public Health (part of county council) Clinical Commissioning Group (part of the NHS, who buy services) and my local MH trust) to tackle stigma.
da1 11y ago
> Agreed. Everyone should have a mental health professional. What about an astrologer, do I need my own astrologer also? mental health professionals have very little to do with other specialties. None of those diagnosis are objectively based on hard data. As they stand they're unfounded speculation and you pressing for general testing is very scary and either ignorant or just downright malevolent.
- meric 11y ago
  That's a good reason to not make everyone have a mental health professional. I think it's fine people can seek them out - people can subjectively evaluate whether the particular professional they're seeing is improving their life or not, and if their life subjectively feels better, then the service the mental health professional is providing is definitely of value. You're right, we don't know enough about what goes on in our minds to force it down everybody, and at the same time, people can be aware of their own selves, and I think we have to be cautious in describing how people see themselves and whether a mental professional is improving their lives, even if without hard data, as unfounded speculation.

marincounty 11y ago

I've been through the system. I've seen Psychiatriatrists and Psychologists. I can honestly say, you didn't miss much. Psychiatrists are very expensive, and very few will accept your insurance. They want cash. Before I saw these people, I just believed they would help. I had no idea their were no magic pills. In fact, I believe they have pills that were studied so terribly, they should be pulled of the market. Your problems with anxiety popped off the page. I too have battled crippling anxiety after a breakdown in grad school. You will eventually find a Psychiatrist to prescribe benzodiazepines(usually a benzo with a long half life). Yes, it works at first, but is addictive. And--that doctor will want to see you for office visits. See today, very few Psychiatrists do any real therapy. They just basically prescribe, and drag patients on for office visits. Legally they only need to see you once a year, but how are they going to make a living? Oh, it's always for your benefit though, and you will be paying for these visits. In essence, you become a hostage to these drugs. Real therapy? Exactly what is real therapy. I have no clue. I went. I cried. I paid. I felt just as bad afterwards. When they did offer advice it was just not right, or right for a previous generation. (And yes, I tried CBT.) Back to Psychiatrists, they don't do therapy, unless you have money. They basically see two to four patients an hour, and it basically just to charge for an office visit, to refill the medications they prescribe. Medications that have a huge placebo component. Medications that are addictive. Yes, it's quite a racket. Psychologists are a bit different. They can't prescribe. They can only offer talk therapy. Yes, some are very nice, and well meaning. The problem, I found, is they didn't help me in the slightest. Oh, that's my fault! I was only in therapy for one year, 2x a week, at $65 a visit. I am ashamed how I came up with that money, but thought Therapy would save my life. I could yak, on and on, but it's one thing you should probally experience first hand. It's kinda like test driving a car an older sports car. Some people will enjoy the experience. Others will wonder what all the fuss is all about. Bad analogy--just tired! I'm not giving advice. I'm just dissalusioned with the system. I've been on a prescribed, addictive drug for years. I'm trying to get off, but don't want to push it. Basically, I don't know how healthy I am. I don't want to die in a crappy detox, praying to a higher power, because I can't find a psychiatrist/doctor to refill my prescriptions. I have a feeling my doctor is getting ready to retire. I don't want to start over with a new psychiatrist who's dragging me on for an office visit every eight weeks, and charging me Whatever he/she wants. See, I'm a different person than I was years ago. I don't have the same fears/problems. I know what most psychiatrists are about to say before they say it. I don't have any big questions that need an answer. I don't need to cry. I just need my prescriptions refilled. That's it. As to "Let's look into getting you off these medications?" If you're young, and healthy it's fine! If older--it's a crap shoot. Some of the compassionate doctors will taper you off the prescribed drugs, but you have bathed your brain in a medication for years. What do you think the outcome will be?