5 ms·

"move to a place that offers such a steep step up in quality of life." Let's be sure we all agree on the meaning of the expected amount: 2'235euros. - Average

by nokya 11y ago

"move to a place that offers such a steep step up in quality of life." Let's be sure we all agree on the meaning of the expected amount: 2'235euros. - Average rent: 1'000€ (assuming shared apartment) - Average base insurance: 350€ - Average public transportation monthly pass: 60€ - Average internet access: 50€ - Average mobile phone access: 30€ - Average income tax: 17% (lower quantile, insurances and transportation deducted): 318€ - Intermediate total: 477€ - 1 restaurant per month with friends: 50€ - 1 movie ticket per month: 15€ - 1 coffee, 2 times per week: 28€ - 1 drink with friends, 1 time weekly: 40€ - Total, remaining: 294€ - Daily wage: 9.40€ Just to give you an idea of what it means living with 9.40€/day in Switzerland: - Train from Geneva to Lausanne (30 minutes): 35€ - Coffee at Starbucks: 7€ - Big mac meal at McDonald's: 10.50€ - A coffee: 3.50€ Basically speaking, this wage would grant you the real minimal amount required to pay your rent, your most basic insurance, income taxes, have a minimal social life with people (coffees) and get some very basic food at home (rice, milk, bread, etc.). Forget the idea of buying anything else such as a kitchen appliance, furniture, clothing, books, side-education, holidays, etc. So yes, it sounds like a very high amount to other countries ears but here, it's lower than the minimal wage. This is a wage to make let people actually "think" by removing the struggle of finding food and shelter. But it is in absolute no way enough to satisfy a normal and well-being person's needs. Finding a job remains necessary.

lettergram 11y ago
I wanted to chime in and also add that over time basic income would increase the cost of good, whether through taxes or vendors raising prices. The fact is, with all forms of minimum wages or basic incomes inevitably lead to increase in prices. That's pretty much how macro economics works.
- sathackr 11y ago
  I wonder what sort of feedback loop would result if they tied the basic income to something like the CPI[1] in the USA? -- As the price of living increased(due to the surge in demand) the basic income would be increased to retain the same buying power. I would think some sort of controls on the prices, possibly only on things the basic income is expected to pa(rent, insurance, food, etc...) would be needed to prevent a runaway inflation feedback loop. Maybe that would be enough to prevent runaway inflation? I like the idea of it but proper implementation would be very difficult. [1] http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm
- listentojohan 11y ago
  That would most probably be the case if people get enough to satisfy current demand for products and at the same time create a surplus of capital to increase demand. If you got your basics covered, just barely, I don't think demand would rise.
dnautics 11y ago
That's why you move to Switzerland for a decade, subsist on bi and pull a small job (maybe), live on scraps and in a hovel, and send money home in the form of remittances
twowordbird 11y ago
Nobody pays 35 euro to travel from Geneva to Lausanne unless they are visiting.
- afc 11y ago
  That's true. Even if you're visiting, http://sbb.ch/ http://sbb.ch/ (the Swiss federal railways) currently offers tickets at 5.60 to 11.20 CHF.
Joof 11y ago
I get by with less in America with no problem, mostly out of habit since I can afford 'nicer' things. Buy beer at a store (you can get more than one for less money!), cook food with your friends, don't buy overpriced coffee and enjoy the nearly limitless supplies of free/cheap entertainment. Play some music or (if you have the luxury) go hiking or something. I'd probably be in the camp of someone who would try for a riskier job, art, entertainment or game design if this was a thing. To be honest, it would probably add more value to the world than what I'm currently doing. I still don't think it would affect most people though; I'd say the majority of people think I'm a bit odd, even some of my friends.
icebraining 11y ago
If you're charging income tax, you're not really providing 2235€.

by nokya 11y ago

lettergram 11y ago

I wanted to chime in and also add that over time basic income would increase the cost of good, whether through taxes or vendors raising prices. The fact is, with all forms of minimum wages or basic incomes inevitably lead to increase in prices. That's pretty much how macro economics works.

sathackr 11y ago
I wonder what sort of feedback loop would result if they tied the basic income to something like the CPI[1] in the USA? -- As the price of living increased(due to the surge in demand) the basic income would be increased to retain the same buying power. I would think some sort of controls on the prices, possibly only on things the basic income is expected to pa(rent, insurance, food, etc...) would be needed to prevent a runaway inflation feedback loop. Maybe that would be enough to prevent runaway inflation? I like the idea of it but proper implementation would be very difficult. [1] http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm http://www.bls.gov/cpi/home.htm
listentojohan 11y ago
That would most probably be the case if people get enough to satisfy current demand for products and at the same time create a surplus of capital to increase demand. If you got your basics covered, just barely, I don't think demand would rise.

dnautics 11y ago

That's why you move to Switzerland for a decade, subsist on bi and pull a small job (maybe), live on scraps and in a hovel, and send money home in the form of remittances

twowordbird 11y ago

Nobody pays 35 euro to travel from Geneva to Lausanne unless they are visiting.

afc 11y ago
That's true. Even if you're visiting, http://sbb.ch/ http://sbb.ch/ (the Swiss federal railways) currently offers tickets at 5.60 to 11.20 CHF.

Joof 11y ago

I get by with less in America with no problem, mostly out of habit since I can afford 'nicer' things. Buy beer at a store (you can get more than one for less money!), cook food with your friends, don't buy overpriced coffee and enjoy the nearly limitless supplies of free/cheap entertainment. Play some music or (if you have the luxury) go hiking or something. I'd probably be in the camp of someone who would try for a riskier job, art, entertainment or game design if this was a thing. To be honest, it would probably add more value to the world than what I'm currently doing. I still don't think it would affect most people though; I'd say the majority of people think I'm a bit odd, even some of my friends.

icebraining 11y ago

If you're charging income tax, you're not really providing 2235€.