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U.S. And European Negotiators Near Deadline for Data Transfer Deal

38 points by jstoiko 11y ago

BogusIKnow 11y ago
Tonight the deadline set by EU data protection agencies ends. On Monday it will be illegal to transfer personal data to the US for EU startups based on safe harbor. Main impact is on email marketing. Currently not clear if exiting BCR and standard clauses are impacted too. It might be the case that EU startups also no longer can use Google Mail or Google apps.
- M2Ys4U 11y ago
  BCR and SCC are useless. The problem is that US law is incompatible with Europe's definition of fundamental rights (i.e. data is made available to the NSA, this is not acceptable and rightly so IMHO). Until US law changes so that there are "effectively equivalent" to EU protections then the CJEU is going to back up anybody who brings a complaint against transatlantic data flows.
- Animats 11y ago
  "On Monday it will be illegal to transfer personal data to the US for EU startups based on safe harbor. Main impact is on email marketing." Sounds like a feature, not a bug. The US "Safe Harbor" was always a joke. It was a work-around because the US refuses to enact data protection laws that give Internet users strong rights against businesses. Read the EU Data Protection Directive.[1] EU citizens have have the right to demand some things of the "data controller" who collected data about you. They can demand a copy of the data. They can demand corrections. They can demand to know of any other parties possessing copies of the data. They can demand to know what other parties are doing with it. These rights cannot be waived. "Data controllers" have to register with their country's data protection authority, and list what data they are keeping about individuals. Individuals can complain to the data protection authority if there are violations; they don't have to sue. Consent must be explicit. An EULA is not enough. "Every consent must be given in an unambiguous way. This means that there should be no reasonable doubt that the data subject wanted to communicate his or her agreement to allow processing of his or her data. Deducing consent from mere inactivity is not capable of delivering unambiguous consent, for example. Where data to be processed are sensitive, explicit consent is mandatory and must be unambiguous." An individual's consent to share personal data can be withdrawn at any time. "Example: A customer agrees to receive promotional mail to an address he or she provides to a data controller. Should the customer withdraw consent, the controller must immediately stop sending promotional mail. No punitive consequences such as fees should be imposed. If the customer was receiving a 5% reduction on the cost of a hotel room in return for agreeing to the use of his or her data for promotional mail, the withdrawal of consent to receiving promotional mail at a later stage should not result in having to pay back those reductions."[2] Incidentally, this applies only to "natural persons", not corporations or businesses. Businesses come under the European Directive on Electronic Commerce, which requires disclosure, not privacy. Since the entire EU has been under these rules for over twenty years now, this is not impossible. But it's something US companies now have to get used to. It's not a problem for companies which collect customer data for internal use only. It's a big problem for companies which sell that data. That data isn't theirs to sell under EU law. The individual has ownership of their own data. [1] http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:31995L0046 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:319... [2] http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra-2014-handbook-data-protection-law-2nd-ed_en.pdf http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra-2014-handbook-d...
  - M2Ys4U 11y ago
    It's worth noting that the Data Protection Directive will be replaced by the General Data Protection Regulation[0] soon, probably in 2018.[1] This Regulation (which will apply automatically across the EU, unlike the previous Directive which had to be manually ported ('transposed') into national law by the member states) will toughen up the rules on consent, data portability, liability and enforcement. One of the biggest headlines is that companies can be fined up to 4% of their _global_ turnover for breaches of the GDPR. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula... [1] http://www.scmagazineuk.com/european-parliament-informally-agrees-gdpr-to-come-into-power-by-2018/article/463353/ http://www.scmagazineuk.com/european-parliament-informally-a...
  - BogusIKnow 11y ago
    "It's not a problem for companies which collect customer data for internal use only. It's a big problem for companies which sell that data." It has nothing to do with companies selling data. It's a problem for any startup that uses US SaaS companies, e.g. AWeber. You can't do that anymore even with correct ToS, with double opt in, with their consent to send people emails. Migrating to companies into the EU is no option, as there is none with the eco system and 2nd level SaaS like Mailchimp or AWeber. And companies large US tech companies like Facebook are not impacted, as they will require consent to data transfer into the US during sign up.
sandworm101 11y ago
The continuation of safe harbour required substantial legal reform, by one side or the other. The legislative deadlines for that passed long ago. We have to question whether the US could have done anything. The real issue seems to be pervasive unlawfulness in the US. What assurance is any new law when various agencies have demonstrated histories of breaking them so casually? I think it will take a generation or more before Europeans have any trust in US privacy laws.
- BogusIKnow 11y ago
  The real problem is the image the EU has of itself. The EuGH decided that personal data in the US is not safe but it is safe in the EU. When in reality at least the UK, French and German secret agencies have spied and are spying on internet communications and data.
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    Yes, but Europeans are free to deal with those issues through local channels. If the germans are acting illegally against a French citizen then there is a place for that to be resolved. An EU citizen cannot go after NSA. That;s one of the big sticking points. It's not about how the countries act so much as it is about the rights of citizens to challenge that action through legal process.
    - BogusIKnow 11y ago
      Where is the place for a French citizen to 'resolve' the issue when being spied upon by the GCHQ? Where is the place for a UK citizen to 'resolve' the issue with the BND?
      - sandworm101 11y ago
        My french isn't great, but in the UK you can file with the ICO. You might not be happy with the outcome, but it is the start of the legal process. The reason safe harbour is falling apart today is precisely because a determined EU citizen filed such a complaint against a US corp. https://www.gov.uk/data-protection/make-a-complaint https://www.gov.uk/data-protection/make-a-complaint

38 points by jstoiko 11y ago

Tonight the deadline set by EU data protection agencies ends. On Monday it will be illegal to transfer personal data to the US for EU startups based on safe harbor. Main impact is on email marketing. Currently not clear if exiting BCR and standard clauses are impacted too. It might be the case that EU startups also no longer can use Google Mail or Google apps.

M2Ys4U 11y ago
BCR and SCC are useless. The problem is that US law is incompatible with Europe's definition of fundamental rights (i.e. data is made available to the NSA, this is not acceptable and rightly so IMHO). Until US law changes so that there are "effectively equivalent" to EU protections then the CJEU is going to back up anybody who brings a complaint against transatlantic data flows.
Animats 11y ago
"On Monday it will be illegal to transfer personal data to the US for EU startups based on safe harbor. Main impact is on email marketing." Sounds like a feature, not a bug. The US "Safe Harbor" was always a joke. It was a work-around because the US refuses to enact data protection laws that give Internet users strong rights against businesses. Read the EU Data Protection Directive.[1] EU citizens have have the right to demand some things of the "data controller" who collected data about you. They can demand a copy of the data. They can demand corrections. They can demand to know of any other parties possessing copies of the data. They can demand to know what other parties are doing with it. These rights cannot be waived. "Data controllers" have to register with their country's data protection authority, and list what data they are keeping about individuals. Individuals can complain to the data protection authority if there are violations; they don't have to sue. Consent must be explicit. An EULA is not enough. "Every consent must be given in an unambiguous way. This means that there should be no reasonable doubt that the data subject wanted to communicate his or her agreement to allow processing of his or her data. Deducing consent from mere inactivity is not capable of delivering unambiguous consent, for example. Where data to be processed are sensitive, explicit consent is mandatory and must be unambiguous." An individual's consent to share personal data can be withdrawn at any time. "Example: A customer agrees to receive promotional mail to an address he or she provides to a data controller. Should the customer withdraw consent, the controller must immediately stop sending promotional mail. No punitive consequences such as fees should be imposed. If the customer was receiving a 5% reduction on the cost of a hotel room in return for agreeing to the use of his or her data for promotional mail, the withdrawal of consent to receiving promotional mail at a later stage should not result in having to pay back those reductions."[2] Incidentally, this applies only to "natural persons", not corporations or businesses. Businesses come under the European Directive on Electronic Commerce, which requires disclosure, not privacy. Since the entire EU has been under these rules for over twenty years now, this is not impossible. But it's something US companies now have to get used to. It's not a problem for companies which collect customer data for internal use only. It's a big problem for companies which sell that data. That data isn't theirs to sell under EU law. The individual has ownership of their own data. [1] http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:31995L0046 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:319... [2] http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra-2014-handbook-data-protection-law-2nd-ed_en.pdf http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra-2014-handbook-d...
- M2Ys4U 11y ago
  It's worth noting that the Data Protection Directive will be replaced by the General Data Protection Regulation[0] soon, probably in 2018.[1] This Regulation (which will apply automatically across the EU, unlike the previous Directive which had to be manually ported ('transposed') into national law by the member states) will toughen up the rules on consent, data portability, liability and enforcement. One of the biggest headlines is that companies can be fined up to 4% of their _global_ turnover for breaches of the GDPR. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula... [1] http://www.scmagazineuk.com/european-parliament-informally-agrees-gdpr-to-come-into-power-by-2018/article/463353/ http://www.scmagazineuk.com/european-parliament-informally-a...
- BogusIKnow 11y ago
  "It's not a problem for companies which collect customer data for internal use only. It's a big problem for companies which sell that data." It has nothing to do with companies selling data. It's a problem for any startup that uses US SaaS companies, e.g. AWeber. You can't do that anymore even with correct ToS, with double opt in, with their consent to send people emails. Migrating to companies into the EU is no option, as there is none with the eco system and 2nd level SaaS like Mailchimp or AWeber. And companies large US tech companies like Facebook are not impacted, as they will require consent to data transfer into the US during sign up.

sandworm101 11y ago

The continuation of safe harbour required substantial legal reform, by one side or the other. The legislative deadlines for that passed long ago. We have to question whether the US could have done anything. The real issue seems to be pervasive unlawfulness in the US. What assurance is any new law when various agencies have demonstrated histories of breaking them so casually? I think it will take a generation or more before Europeans have any trust in US privacy laws.

BogusIKnow 11y ago
The real problem is the image the EU has of itself. The EuGH decided that personal data in the US is not safe but it is safe in the EU. When in reality at least the UK, French and German secret agencies have spied and are spying on internet communications and data.
- sandworm101 11y ago
  Yes, but Europeans are free to deal with those issues through local channels. If the germans are acting illegally against a French citizen then there is a place for that to be resolved. An EU citizen cannot go after NSA. That;s one of the big sticking points. It's not about how the countries act so much as it is about the rights of citizens to challenge that action through legal process.
  - BogusIKnow 11y ago
    Where is the place for a French citizen to 'resolve' the issue when being spied upon by the GCHQ? Where is the place for a UK citizen to 'resolve' the issue with the BND?
    - sandworm101 11y ago
      My french isn't great, but in the UK you can file with the ICO. You might not be happy with the outcome, but it is the start of the legal process. The reason safe harbour is falling apart today is precisely because a determined EU citizen filed such a complaint against a US corp. https://www.gov.uk/data-protection/make-a-complaint https://www.gov.uk/data-protection/make-a-complaint