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I don't think that's a high number at all for Switzerland - infact it would be quite a struggle to live on that amount after paying for rent, health insurance,

I don't think that's a high number at all for Switzerland - infact it would be quite a struggle to live on that amount after paying for rent, health insurance, utilities and food. I think the amount being proposed would still give quite a high incentive to people to work, as the standard of living on the minimum would be basic to say the least.

seivan 11y ago
What if you've paid off your mortgage and now housing is essentially only maintenance and utilities. Removing rent cost would make that money last. I wonder if the people behind this have that notion.
- tonfa 11y ago
  Home ownership isn't very high in Switzerland (and at least in urban areas there aren't many apartments below 1M). And you have to pay income tax on your rent anyway (even if to yourself).
  - seivan 11y ago
    Exactly For those lucky enough to have managed to secure a place without rent/mortage -> essentially those lucky few with ownership <- will get the best out of basic income.
    - tonfa 11y ago
      Not necessarily if income tax rates are offset to compensate. Also 2k/mo might not make much of a difference for wealthy people (so they'd still need to earn money to support their lifestyle).
- gaius 11y ago
  In Switzerland money that you're not paying in rent/mortgage because you own the property, is considered income and taxed accordingly.
  - themartorana 11y ago
    Isn't it in most countries? In the US the interest paid is at least a write off. But principal payments have already been taxed as income...
    - chimeracoder 11y ago
      No, this is different from what happens in the US. Let's say I buy a house in the US and pay cash (no mortgage, no financing). I now own this house and decide to live in it. I will have to pay local property taxes, but I do not have to pay any income tax. Now, let's say I instead rented out the house to someone else (and lived somewhere else), I would be making income on the rent, and therefore paying income tax on the rental income. In Switzerland, if you live in the house that you own (the first example), you are considered to be renting it to yourself. So you have to pay income tax on the market rent for your home, even if you are both the tenant and the landlord. EDIT: For the record, I don't know why you're being downvoted for asking for clarification.
      - themartorana 11y ago
        Thanks, I see what is meant now. Don't know why I'm getting downvoted either. Seems a rather innocuous question by someone not native to Switzerland.
  - seivan 11y ago
    You're missing the point completely. Not having to deal with rent means the money from basic income can go further than for anyone who doesn't own their own housing. Meaning it's essentially for rich kids who've inherited their own housing, or those with enough dispensable income to pay off their place. Basic Income in this scenario wouldn't help the poorest, it would help the rich enough to get further with that money. I am not against Basic Income, but it has to be in a situation where the poor will benefit from it, not the rich enough to make the best out of the money. This seems like just another shit the modern bourgeois leftist have cooked up for themselves thinking it applies to the poorest. What a joke.

seivan 11y ago

What if you've paid off your mortgage and now housing is essentially only maintenance and utilities. Removing rent cost would make that money last. I wonder if the people behind this have that notion.

tonfa 11y ago
Home ownership isn't very high in Switzerland (and at least in urban areas there aren't many apartments below 1M). And you have to pay income tax on your rent anyway (even if to yourself).
- seivan 11y ago
  Exactly For those lucky enough to have managed to secure a place without rent/mortage -> essentially those lucky few with ownership <- will get the best out of basic income.
  - tonfa 11y ago
    Not necessarily if income tax rates are offset to compensate. Also 2k/mo might not make much of a difference for wealthy people (so they'd still need to earn money to support their lifestyle).
gaius 11y ago
In Switzerland money that you're not paying in rent/mortgage because you own the property, is considered income and taxed accordingly.
- themartorana 11y ago
  Isn't it in most countries? In the US the interest paid is at least a write off. But principal payments have already been taxed as income...
  - chimeracoder 11y ago
    No, this is different from what happens in the US. Let's say I buy a house in the US and pay cash (no mortgage, no financing). I now own this house and decide to live in it. I will have to pay local property taxes, but I do not have to pay any income tax. Now, let's say I instead rented out the house to someone else (and lived somewhere else), I would be making income on the rent, and therefore paying income tax on the rental income. In Switzerland, if you live in the house that you own (the first example), you are considered to be renting it to yourself. So you have to pay income tax on the market rent for your home, even if you are both the tenant and the landlord. EDIT: For the record, I don't know why you're being downvoted for asking for clarification.
    - themartorana 11y ago
      Thanks, I see what is meant now. Don't know why I'm getting downvoted either. Seems a rather innocuous question by someone not native to Switzerland.
- seivan 11y ago
  You're missing the point completely. Not having to deal with rent means the money from basic income can go further than for anyone who doesn't own their own housing. Meaning it's essentially for rich kids who've inherited their own housing, or those with enough dispensable income to pay off their place. Basic Income in this scenario wouldn't help the poorest, it would help the rich enough to get further with that money. I am not against Basic Income, but it has to be in a situation where the poor will benefit from it, not the rich enough to make the best out of the money. This seems like just another shit the modern bourgeois leftist have cooked up for themselves thinking it applies to the poorest. What a joke.