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I wish that NYTimes would differentiate between Individual indian States. Individual states have significant autonomy and depending upon the government elected

I wish that NYTimes would differentiate between Individual indian States. Individual states have significant autonomy and depending upon the government elected can range from moderate to leftist. Largest indian states have populations similar to large nations such as Mexico ~ Maharashtra. And have huge variation in metrics like literacy rates ranging from 93% (Kerala ~ Canada ) to 63% (Bihar ~ Philippines). ~ is used to show country with similar population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_literacy_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_liter... http://www.economist.com/content/indian-summary http://www.economist.com/content/indian-summary

whelp 11y ago
What does it mean to be literate in India? http://gbytes.gsood.com/2006/07/03/literacy-in-india-can-india-spell-success/ http://gbytes.gsood.com/2006/07/03/literacy-in-india-can-ind...
- pavanky 11y ago
  This "survey" was held in villages in 5 of the most backward states in India. In Hindi. 13 years ago. Two of the states also do not speak Hindi as their primary language. Do you really think this is a fair representation of India as a whole ?
- sanjeetsuhag 11y ago
  That's from 2006.
hackuser 11y ago
> the government elected can range from moderate to leftist Isn't the BJP, the Hindu nationalist party that now runs the country, right-wing? I know they are openly anti-Muslim in some times and places.
- chimeracoder 11y ago
  > I know they are openly anti-Muslim in some times and places. What makes 'anti-Muslim' inherently right-wing? Certainly in the US and Western Europe, there's no shortage of Islamophobia to go around in the left-wing parties.
  - hackuser 11y ago
    Hmmm ... could you give examples? In my experience nationalism, xenophobia, and religious prejudice overwhelmingly are only on the agendas of right wing parties.
    - Manishearth 11y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics#Usage_in_Western_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics#Us... "right wing" in the US has a very different meaning than the rest of the world. At its core, left/right is a statement about social (in)equality and the government's involvement in the same. It often is tied with conservative or nonsecular politics (inextricably so in the US, less so elsewhere), but that does not define it. India's government is pretty heavily involved in trying to break down social inequality. Whilst people disagree about the intentions and/or impact; we have plenty of policies trying to break down this inequality. We're also more on the socialist side of the capitalist-socialist spectrum (the constitution, for example, explicitly calls India socialist). As far as cross-party agreement on government "interference" in equality is concerned, India has it much more than the US AFAICT. Whether this makes the main parties left-wing; I don't know, but it's not clearly right-wing. Then again, Wikipedia seems to call the BJP right-wing. .... terminology sucks. (IMO this dichotomy isn't particularly useful in India.)
      - sremani 11y ago
        Especially when the Sangh is for Swadeshi and actively for Protectionism. RSS happens to Hindu Nationalist but have Fabian socialist tendencies.
      - hackuser 11y ago
- tn13 11y ago
  BJP is right-wing hindu but the only party in the country to demand uniform civil code.
  - hackuser 11y ago
    Right-wing parties often sell themselves as bringing more order. Famously, Benito Mussolini, who openly embraced fascism in Italy, promised to make the trains run on time. (It's order for the groups the fascists represent but state-imposed disorder for the minorities and others that are oppressed.)
    - fennecfoxen 11y ago
      Because this is Hacker News and we can have opinions with more nuance and respect people with intellectual differences to improve our understanding of the world... we should also note that, at its best, there can be wonderful things that you get from certain principles of order and uniform civil codes and right-wing thought, such as the Rule Of Law (Not Of Men) and the idea of Equality Under The Law. but we shouldn't. These principles, if combined, mean that no one is unfairly oppressed by the legal system and the government (that most powerful of all potential oppressors) and that no one is favored with special rights and privileges and handouts. This is not the sole essence of freedom in and of itself in isolation, but it's an important component of the foundation of freedom, and a powerful check on dictators like Mussolini. Our strong tradition around these principles here in the Anglosphere is why our tyranny rate has been so incredibly low for centuries.
      - hackuser 11y ago
        If you are attributing to me any disrespect toward conservative members of HN, please point out the words. We need to be able to say things that are critical of ideas without people jumping to the conclusion that it's personal disrespect. I absolutely agree that order and many other ideas that are more associated with the right, such as the free market, are extremely valuable. I don't happen to agree that everything you named is actually right-wing, including the rule of law, equality under the law, or resistance to tyranny. As a simple example, conservatives in the US supported slavery and segregation for centuries, and still work to limit voting and other rights of minorities.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
pj_mukh 11y ago
Who cares? The government is hardly the solution here. This kind of problem usually requires major grassroots efforts, usually lead by insiders within all these sub-cultures. The government at best could band-aid the solution, at worst, it'll antagonize them.
lgieron 11y ago
I'm not sure I understood you right - are you saying 7% Canadians are illiterate?

whelp 11y ago

What does it mean to be literate in India? http://gbytes.gsood.com/2006/07/03/literacy-in-india-can-india-spell-success/ http://gbytes.gsood.com/2006/07/03/literacy-in-india-can-ind...

pavanky 11y ago
This "survey" was held in villages in 5 of the most backward states in India. In Hindi. 13 years ago. Two of the states also do not speak Hindi as their primary language. Do you really think this is a fair representation of India as a whole ?
sanjeetsuhag 11y ago
That's from 2006.

hackuser 11y ago

> the government elected can range from moderate to leftist Isn't the BJP, the Hindu nationalist party that now runs the country, right-wing? I know they are openly anti-Muslim in some times and places.

chimeracoder 11y ago
> I know they are openly anti-Muslim in some times and places. What makes 'anti-Muslim' inherently right-wing? Certainly in the US and Western Europe, there's no shortage of Islamophobia to go around in the left-wing parties.
- hackuser 11y ago
  Hmmm ... could you give examples? In my experience nationalism, xenophobia, and religious prejudice overwhelmingly are only on the agendas of right wing parties.
  - Manishearth 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics#Usage_in_Western_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics#Us... "right wing" in the US has a very different meaning than the rest of the world. At its core, left/right is a statement about social (in)equality and the government's involvement in the same. It often is tied with conservative or nonsecular politics (inextricably so in the US, less so elsewhere), but that does not define it. India's government is pretty heavily involved in trying to break down social inequality. Whilst people disagree about the intentions and/or impact; we have plenty of policies trying to break down this inequality. We're also more on the socialist side of the capitalist-socialist spectrum (the constitution, for example, explicitly calls India socialist). As far as cross-party agreement on government "interference" in equality is concerned, India has it much more than the US AFAICT. Whether this makes the main parties left-wing; I don't know, but it's not clearly right-wing. Then again, Wikipedia seems to call the BJP right-wing. .... terminology sucks. (IMO this dichotomy isn't particularly useful in India.)
    - sremani 11y ago
      Especially when the Sangh is for Swadeshi and actively for Protectionism. RSS happens to Hindu Nationalist but have Fabian socialist tendencies.
    - hackuser 11y ago
tn13 11y ago
BJP is right-wing hindu but the only party in the country to demand uniform civil code.
- hackuser 11y ago
  Right-wing parties often sell themselves as bringing more order. Famously, Benito Mussolini, who openly embraced fascism in Italy, promised to make the trains run on time. (It's order for the groups the fascists represent but state-imposed disorder for the minorities and others that are oppressed.)
  - fennecfoxen 11y ago
    Because this is Hacker News and we can have opinions with more nuance and respect people with intellectual differences to improve our understanding of the world... we should also note that, at its best, there can be wonderful things that you get from certain principles of order and uniform civil codes and right-wing thought, such as the Rule Of Law (Not Of Men) and the idea of Equality Under The Law. but we shouldn't. These principles, if combined, mean that no one is unfairly oppressed by the legal system and the government (that most powerful of all potential oppressors) and that no one is favored with special rights and privileges and handouts. This is not the sole essence of freedom in and of itself in isolation, but it's an important component of the foundation of freedom, and a powerful check on dictators like Mussolini. Our strong tradition around these principles here in the Anglosphere is why our tyranny rate has been so incredibly low for centuries.
    - hackuser 11y ago
      If you are attributing to me any disrespect toward conservative members of HN, please point out the words. We need to be able to say things that are critical of ideas without people jumping to the conclusion that it's personal disrespect. I absolutely agree that order and many other ideas that are more associated with the right, such as the free market, are extremely valuable. I don't happen to agree that everything you named is actually right-wing, including the rule of law, equality under the law, or resistance to tyranny. As a simple example, conservatives in the US supported slavery and segregation for centuries, and still work to limit voting and other rights of minorities.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

pj_mukh 11y ago

Who cares? The government is hardly the solution here. This kind of problem usually requires major grassroots efforts, usually lead by insiders within all these sub-cultures. The government at best could band-aid the solution, at worst, it'll antagonize them.

lgieron 11y ago

I'm not sure I understood you right - are you saying 7% Canadians are illiterate?