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Smalltalk! I got in touch with it in university and I love it. I'm convinced it is the best OO language there is, and generally one of the best general purpose

Smalltalk! I got in touch with it in university and I love it. I'm convinced it is the best OO language there is, and generally one of the best general purpose languages (and environments!) ever invented. I even had the luck to be able to use it on my last job (VisualWorks), but unfortunately I no longer have that job :(

marshray 11y ago
I tried Smalltalk recently, but I couldn't get into it: 1. The (basically mandatory) UI was keyboard unfriendly 2. They removed multiple inheritance from the language. That's not still Smalltalk, is it?
- gnaritas 11y ago
  Um, Smalltalk doesn't have multiple inheritance, isn't supposed to.
- Rockslide 11y ago
  As far as I know, Smalltalk never had "real" multiple inheritance, but merely an experimental hack implementation around doesNotUnderstand (cf. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MultipleInheritanceInSmalltalk http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MultipleInheritanceInSmalltalk ). So I wouldn't agree to the sentiment that it has been removed from the language, but I'm too young to judge how essential it once was. Personally, I don't miss it at all. Which Smalltalk did you try exactly? There are huge differences between the UIs, and e.g. GNU Smalltalk doesn't have a UI at all.
  - true_religion 11y ago
    Didn't it have traits?
gnaritas 11y ago
It is the best OO language there is, it is after all the original OO language. Everything else is a poor copy.
- Rockslide 11y ago
  I know. But just because something is the first, doesn't mean it (still) is the best ;) But as I already said, I agree; everything that came after was subpar.
- jghn 11y ago
  Depends on one's perspective. You could also make an argument that Simula was the first. I'll grant you that Kay coined the term (at least AFAIK)
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    Simula was not an object oriented language, it was a procedural language with objects; that's a very different thing. Smalltalk took objects and made them primary, everything, even the language itself is built upon the foundation of objects. True and False for example are not language elements, they are singleton instances of the classes True and False which are both subclasses of Boolean. What are "if" statements in other languages, including Simula (a superset of AGOL) are virtual methods in Smalltalk in the Boolean hierarchy. Simula invented objects and added them as an option to a procedural language; Smalltalk took them and built a language out of them and thus coined the term Object Oriented.
pvaldes 11y ago
Hum, I played also first time with smalltalk some months ago and even installed squeak, but can't avoid feeling the "what I could done with this thing?" sensation. Lots of games and cartoons moving in the screen. Should I push stronger?
- yaowenjiaozi 11y ago
  Look up Niall Ross's summaries of Smalltalk conferences over the years: http://www.esug.org/data/ReportsFromNiallRoss/ http://www.esug.org/data/ReportsFromNiallRoss/. They show interesting stuff that people do with Smalltalk and will help you decide whether Smalltalk is for you. Personally, Smalltalk rocks!
cwp 11y ago
Here here! I had several Smalltalk jobs (VisualWorks, Squeak), before going back into more mainstream stuff. Still use it for personal projects, though.

marshray 11y ago

I tried Smalltalk recently, but I couldn't get into it: 1. The (basically mandatory) UI was keyboard unfriendly 2. They removed multiple inheritance from the language. That's not still Smalltalk, is it?

gnaritas 11y ago
Um, Smalltalk doesn't have multiple inheritance, isn't supposed to.
Rockslide 11y ago
As far as I know, Smalltalk never had "real" multiple inheritance, but merely an experimental hack implementation around doesNotUnderstand (cf. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MultipleInheritanceInSmalltalk http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MultipleInheritanceInSmalltalk ). So I wouldn't agree to the sentiment that it has been removed from the language, but I'm too young to judge how essential it once was. Personally, I don't miss it at all. Which Smalltalk did you try exactly? There are huge differences between the UIs, and e.g. GNU Smalltalk doesn't have a UI at all.
- true_religion 11y ago
  Didn't it have traits?

gnaritas 11y ago

It is the best OO language there is, it is after all the original OO language. Everything else is a poor copy.

Rockslide 11y ago
I know. But just because something is the first, doesn't mean it (still) is the best ;) But as I already said, I agree; everything that came after was subpar.
jghn 11y ago
Depends on one's perspective. You could also make an argument that Simula was the first. I'll grant you that Kay coined the term (at least AFAIK)
- gnaritas 11y ago
  Simula was not an object oriented language, it was a procedural language with objects; that's a very different thing. Smalltalk took objects and made them primary, everything, even the language itself is built upon the foundation of objects. True and False for example are not language elements, they are singleton instances of the classes True and False which are both subclasses of Boolean. What are "if" statements in other languages, including Simula (a superset of AGOL) are virtual methods in Smalltalk in the Boolean hierarchy. Simula invented objects and added them as an option to a procedural language; Smalltalk took them and built a language out of them and thus coined the term Object Oriented.

pvaldes 11y ago

Hum, I played also first time with smalltalk some months ago and even installed squeak, but can't avoid feeling the "what I could done with this thing?" sensation. Lots of games and cartoons moving in the screen. Should I push stronger?

yaowenjiaozi 11y ago
Look up Niall Ross's summaries of Smalltalk conferences over the years: http://www.esug.org/data/ReportsFromNiallRoss/ http://www.esug.org/data/ReportsFromNiallRoss/. They show interesting stuff that people do with Smalltalk and will help you decide whether Smalltalk is for you. Personally, Smalltalk rocks!

cwp 11y ago

Here here! I had several Smalltalk jobs (VisualWorks, Squeak), before going back into more mainstream stuff. Still use it for personal projects, though.