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No. I'm bootstrapping a product startup, and the only thing I care about now is whether it works and whether people find _value_ in it. Its logo doesn't matter,

by jasim 11y ago

No. I'm bootstrapping a product startup, and the only thing I care about now is whether it works and whether people find _value_ in it. Its logo doesn't matter, the copy doesn't matter, glossy startuppy pictures don't matter. The only thing that matters now is whether it is materially useful - whether someone thinks that their life is easier because this tool exist in this world. So when this site came up a long time ago in /new, I grabbed one of it and put it on - only because my product contains a Chrome Extension, and it needs a small 32x32 icon. And, it is a damn good logo too. I also sent an email asking permission to use it, and even offering to pay (peanuts) for exclusive access, and the founder was extremely courteous and reminded me that it doesn't matter what you start with, you can always change once you get traction. So there you go. I love my generic logo.

Mahn 11y ago
Well said, it's the product and the execution what matters, not the product logo and name. Heck, you could probably use a ridiculous name with a logo designed in MS Paint and as long as the product delivered amazing value people would just get used to it. That's not to say there's no value in well made branding, but it's just not something that an early startup should care about much.
LCDninja 11y ago
I appreciate your dedication to delivering value, however it's also worth considering the emotional connection people make with your product. A logo is essentially a mental shortcut to your offering, your story, and your value proposition. A distinct logo compresses all the meaning behind what you do into a simple reminder, a mental shortcut. Great logos are unique and memorable. Your pitch is important, and tone of your copy is important in framing and expressing this. For example, if you're asking me to download an executable you need to gain a certain degree of trust on behalf of the user. Trust is an emotion. Good art & copy can go a long way to building trust. Branding is really the emotional connection you make with your user base, and emotional connections aren't rational things. This is why excellent products sometimes lose to less functionally valuable products - because we've distilled the rational meaning down to something which is irrational. To "like" Apples products, for example, is not rational - it's emotional. The meaning behind Apples brand is more than the functional value of it's products. It represents something different to each of us, even though we're all using the same product. For some people, Apples brand represents a part of their own identity - this is about as emotional as it gets. Apples brand communication has touched these people in a strong way. Do you think Apple could have built such a loyal following with a MS Paint logo and terrible copy? To put it another way, branding could also be thought of as packaging - and it's well known that packaging is extremely important to product success.
- UK-AL 11y ago
  Yes, but all of that comes after you have something of value. Spending tons of money on brand design, when you really need a minimum viable product to get you going is not a good plan. Once you've worked out you have something of value, that people are willing to part with their cash for, then by all means spend tons of money on it.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
malandrew 11y ago
I can't upvote this enough. I know a few of the true stories behind the original logos of some of SV's unicorns and this is spot on (unfortunately, I cannot share them because they were shared in confidence). The parent comment is not wrong about the value of a great brand, but it can easily become a huge frivolous distraction after a certain point when you're should be focusing on building something useful for people in their daily lives. You can always perform a full brand refresh later once you can afford to spend a few months and lots of money to do so, and that's exactly what many unicorns eventually do. I've seen outside designers rationalize some of these well known brands after the fact without knowing the inside and often accidental story and its comical. It's brand design. Like all the other components of a great company and great product, it's contributory like engineering and customer service, but it's not like you're solving World peace. For some products/services and target markets, the brand may be very important. For others, it could be non-consequential. "Worse is better" and "perfect is the enemy of done" apply to brand design as much as in any other aspect. Like other aspects you can always iterate and improve later.
- jiblylabs 11y ago
  Totally. I think there is plenty of value in design and brand work. The types of startups that don't have the money, or need to get a professional designer to help them out aren't the types of customer any designer would want in the first place. So free resources like these simply fill the gap to make sure startups don't waste $5 on fiverr for crap, instead get something much nicer for free. WHen they have the money and are seeing their company get traction, their brand becomes important and they'll naturally shift towards designers. I think the company behind this resource understands that. bravo.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
chejazi 11y ago
I'm bootstrapping a product startup as well and I have to agree. My logo is the cent symbol, in Arial font. Lots of other things to be working on!
- LeifCarrotson 11y ago
  Good luck! I work at a company where the logo is the founder's last name, in Arial Black, the aspect ratio slightly squished because the original designer was an ME with no software experience to know how to preserve aspect ratio. Now that logo is on 20 years and tens of millions of dollars worth of machines, so it would be hard to change, but it's fine.
  - homarp 11y ago
    https://www.khanacademy.org/computer-programming/dell-logo/5614489872891904 https://www.khanacademy.org/computer-programming/dell-logo/5... ?
wheatbin 11y ago
I liken a brand to a person's name and personality. It helps me differentiate similar products in the marketplace. Apple computers commands a higher profit margin than their competitors because of their brand. Just a thought.

by jasim 11y ago

Mahn 11y ago

Well said, it's the product and the execution what matters, not the product logo and name. Heck, you could probably use a ridiculous name with a logo designed in MS Paint and as long as the product delivered amazing value people would just get used to it. That's not to say there's no value in well made branding, but it's just not something that an early startup should care about much.

LCDninja 11y ago

I appreciate your dedication to delivering value, however it's also worth considering the emotional connection people make with your product. A logo is essentially a mental shortcut to your offering, your story, and your value proposition. A distinct logo compresses all the meaning behind what you do into a simple reminder, a mental shortcut. Great logos are unique and memorable. Your pitch is important, and tone of your copy is important in framing and expressing this. For example, if you're asking me to download an executable you need to gain a certain degree of trust on behalf of the user. Trust is an emotion. Good art & copy can go a long way to building trust. Branding is really the emotional connection you make with your user base, and emotional connections aren't rational things. This is why excellent products sometimes lose to less functionally valuable products - because we've distilled the rational meaning down to something which is irrational. To "like" Apples products, for example, is not rational - it's emotional. The meaning behind Apples brand is more than the functional value of it's products. It represents something different to each of us, even though we're all using the same product. For some people, Apples brand represents a part of their own identity - this is about as emotional as it gets. Apples brand communication has touched these people in a strong way. Do you think Apple could have built such a loyal following with a MS Paint logo and terrible copy? To put it another way, branding could also be thought of as packaging - and it's well known that packaging is extremely important to product success.

UK-AL 11y ago
Yes, but all of that comes after you have something of value. Spending tons of money on brand design, when you really need a minimum viable product to get you going is not a good plan. Once you've worked out you have something of value, that people are willing to part with their cash for, then by all means spend tons of money on it.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

malandrew 11y ago

I can't upvote this enough. I know a few of the true stories behind the original logos of some of SV's unicorns and this is spot on (unfortunately, I cannot share them because they were shared in confidence). The parent comment is not wrong about the value of a great brand, but it can easily become a huge frivolous distraction after a certain point when you're should be focusing on building something useful for people in their daily lives. You can always perform a full brand refresh later once you can afford to spend a few months and lots of money to do so, and that's exactly what many unicorns eventually do. I've seen outside designers rationalize some of these well known brands after the fact without knowing the inside and often accidental story and its comical. It's brand design. Like all the other components of a great company and great product, it's contributory like engineering and customer service, but it's not like you're solving World peace. For some products/services and target markets, the brand may be very important. For others, it could be non-consequential. "Worse is better" and "perfect is the enemy of done" apply to brand design as much as in any other aspect. Like other aspects you can always iterate and improve later.

jiblylabs 11y ago
Totally. I think there is plenty of value in design and brand work. The types of startups that don't have the money, or need to get a professional designer to help them out aren't the types of customer any designer would want in the first place. So free resources like these simply fill the gap to make sure startups don't waste $5 on fiverr for crap, instead get something much nicer for free. WHen they have the money and are seeing their company get traction, their brand becomes important and they'll naturally shift towards designers. I think the company behind this resource understands that. bravo.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

chejazi 11y ago

I'm bootstrapping a product startup as well and I have to agree. My logo is the cent symbol, in Arial font. Lots of other things to be working on!

LeifCarrotson 11y ago
Good luck! I work at a company where the logo is the founder's last name, in Arial Black, the aspect ratio slightly squished because the original designer was an ME with no software experience to know how to preserve aspect ratio. Now that logo is on 20 years and tens of millions of dollars worth of machines, so it would be hard to change, but it's fine.
- homarp 11y ago
  https://www.khanacademy.org/computer-programming/dell-logo/5614489872891904 https://www.khanacademy.org/computer-programming/dell-logo/5... ?

wheatbin 11y ago

I liken a brand to a person's name and personality. It helps me differentiate similar products in the marketplace. Apple computers commands a higher profit margin than their competitors because of their brand. Just a thought.