4 ms·

the entitlement is strong with this one

tomreece 11y ago
Indeed it is. Haven't I accrued debt, worked hard, and earned the right to be in a job I should be happy at? I deserve that. So do you and so does every body else.
- grillvogel 11y ago
  no one deserves anything
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    Everyone deserves everything. We live in a society that is capable of creating a post-scarcity economy (and in many cases, such as media and software, has) yet is putting itself through ever more convoluted contortions to make sure poor people don't get to have anything. Eff. That. Noise. Work is not a moral imperative.
    - solipsism 11y ago
      If one of our descendants happens to be born into a society that grants him/her the _entitlement_ to happiness, that person will be very lucky indeed. We haven't been born into such a society, however.
      - Apocryphon 11y ago
        We're on the threshold of one. We should start living and working that way.
        leshow 11y ago
        no we aren't, happiness is to nebulous to just be 'solved'
    - sly_foxx 11y ago
      'Everyone deserves everything' Does this include bonobo monkeys, sharks, dogs, snails etc. ? 'We live in a society...' No. You(member of homo sapiens species) live on planet Earth with many biological organisms, like bacteria that's on your hands right now. Actually, even that is too specific. You live in 1 galaxy that has 100s of Billions of stars and other clusters of matter in it. That galaxy is just one out of 100s of Billions of galaxies in the whole universe. 'make sure poor people don't get to have anything' What? Why would some homo sapiens automatically deserve something, just because they happen to be born as one? 'Work is not a moral imperative' Do you have a method of determining what a moral imperative is? You know, people at CERN have built complex machines to detect certain particles. So, you're saying that work is not a moral imperative. How did you find that out? There are people who think that it is. How are you going to convince them they are wrong? Who is dictating these moral imperatives? Is it God?
    - krapp 11y ago
      >We live in a society that is capable of creating a post-scarcity economy (and in many cases, such as media and software, has) Media and software are not examples of post-scarcity economy. They require hardware, which requires infrastructure, which runs on the expenditure of fuel and calories, and is built oftentimes with slave labor. The music needs to be composed, the movies need to be filmed, the games need to be designed. Storage media needs to be replaced. Programmers need to be educated generation after generation, and then everything rewritten in new languages when no one cares about the old ones. Factories need to keep building new models and old models keep filling landfills. The digital world is very much tied to scarcity of resources. Every bit flipped contributes to the inevitable heat death of the universe.
- jkereako 11y ago
  Happiness is not a right. This kind of thinking will perpetuate your misery.
  - Apocryphon 11y ago
    It's enshrined in the American Constitution.
    - krapp 11y ago
      The Declaration of Independence declares a natural right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness[0]." Happiness itself is not enshrined as a right, certainly not by the Constitution[1]. [0] http://www.founding.com/the_declaration_of_i/pageID.2423/default.asp http://www.founding.com/the_declaration_of_i/pageID.2423/def... [1] https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CDOC-110hdoc50/pdf/CDOC-110hdoc50.pdf https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CDOC-110hdoc50/pdf/CDOC-110hdo...
    - leshow 11y ago
      PURSUIT of happiness. try going to the police and saying your right to happiness has been thwarted by the company paying your salary... see how far that gets you
jmspring 11y ago
Depending where, that "cabin in the woods" doesn't come cheap. And the time and effort needed to make a decent fraction of what one does "coding" in jobs around cheap locations is going to take many years of hard work.
- gravypod 11y ago
  Not if you buy the land at a tax sale, built it yourself, and live with bare essentials. Lets say there are two people who want a home, one person builds theirs and the other buys theirs via a loan. Both are looking for a $200,000 price range. The one who is buying a prebuilt home is going for a 30 year fixed rate mortgage. * Solar Panels - $1,000 * Building Materials - $10,000 * Land - $2,000 * Well Drilled On Property /w Electric Pump, Filter, and Tank - $10,000 * Backup Power Batteries - $1,000 * Composting Toilet, Sink, Kitchen Appliances (All top of the line) - $20,000 (You can save a LOT of money here by skimping on the stove and fridge) * Nice HAM radio set - $1000 * Satellite internet hookup - $500 * Zoning, Permits, Safety inspections - $1,000 Total Approximate Cost: $46,500 This is with very heavy rounding upward. Granted, this home will be small, likely no basement, and two stories. But it will be very comfortable living if you build it yourself. You will be able to maintain everything, no more rent, no more service fees, no more power/water bill. So, just to give buying a home a better fighting chance, let's make this humble home a super humble home. * Aerogel-Composed insilation: 40,000 * Super Efficient NAS/Server: 5,000 * Some more battery capacity: 5,000 * High efficiency HVAC system: 30,000 Added Cost: $80,000 Total Approximate Cost: $126,500 Now lets start going to where money can buy, but you just need a lot of patience. * Why not launch a small satellite in geosynchronous orbit? $100,000 * More HAM equipment for tracking satellites. $5,000 * Underground bunker underneath your home. $60,000 Added Cost: $165,000 Total Approximate Cost: $291,500 Both where able to get into their homes within 2 months, both started out with what was probably going to need some work over time. The home buyer paid $340,427 in total, along with extra taxes. The home builder got a $291,500 and did some really cool shit if you ask me. Yes, I am exaggerating a little. But you get my point. You can always make your dreams come true.
moron4hire 11y ago
I rather much agree with him. What the hell was the point of getting a supposedly in-demand degree, graduating top of my class, maintaining my skills at the top of the industry, if I was just going to get stuck in a corporate hell-hole? Programmers of the world, unite.
- solipsism 11y ago
  I was going to reply to the parent saying, "He's not saying he's entitled to anything! He just doesn't like his situation and wants to change it!".. and then I realized the author replied first, and indeed is asserting he's entitled to happiness? What was the point of any of that hard work? Maybe there was no point, maybe he/you made a mistake. From where do you derive entitlement? If you live in the United States you're entitled to the _pursuit_ of happiness. Go, pursue it, but your career choices and mistakes are your own. No one owes you anything.
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    Alright, fine, we don't deserve anything. We don't deserve to be treated like children. We don't deserve to have the majority of our productivity either stymied or taken from us and bastardized. We don't deserve to be told "do this for us and we'll take care of you" and that turns out to be nothing. Yeah, there's a lot we don't deserve. I'm owed what I was promised. I was promised "pass these tests, you can get into any grad school or company you want." That didn't happen. I was promised, "finish this project, and you'll get a raise and to run the next one your way." That never happened. I was promised a lot of things, and because I don't have a rich daddy to threaten people with a lawsuit for breaking those promises, I get told it's my fault for expecting anything. As I said before. Eff. That. Noise. Your rules suck. I choose my own.
    - jacalata 11y ago
      So what are you going to do then?
    - solipsism 11y ago
NhanH 11y ago
You are not giving the writer enough charity with your interpretation. Almost every single programmers I personally know around his age shares the sentiment. Ranging from SV startup jobs to the FB/Google/Microsoft/AMZN, even some doing programming in countries half way across the world.
- jmspring 11y ago
  So, a generation of entitled? Me - I stay with a job (or side project or consulting) if it is fun and I am learning something. Pick and choose accordingly. From the article -- "I write test automation to test the front-end" -- there were potentially interesting things here maybe some years ago, but he put himself into a position that frequently gets off shored and doesn't have a lot of room for growth/creativity. Really, all these entitlement 20-something posts are basically the same in general content.
  - NhanH 11y ago
    If you believe that there are a world-wide generation of entitled human, there is not much substance to be discussed. I read the post as simple as the field where he grew up with turned out to be a much different thing in a (industrialized?) setting.
  - Apocryphon 11y ago
    We live in a time of unprecedented prosperity and productivity. Why shouldn't we be entitled?
  - tomreece 11y ago
    I didn't know if I'd like testing or not. But I thought I would try something new. Comparing my daily work with the coders around me, I still think I'd pick testing because they literally just glue too many shitty api's together into an AngularJS application.
YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
Yeah, I know. He wants to be productive at work. What folly, eh?

Indeed it is. Haven't I accrued debt, worked hard, and earned the right to be in a job I should be happy at? I deserve that. So do you and so does every body else.

grillvogel 11y ago
no one deserves anything
- moron4hire 11y ago
  Everyone deserves everything. We live in a society that is capable of creating a post-scarcity economy (and in many cases, such as media and software, has) yet is putting itself through ever more convoluted contortions to make sure poor people don't get to have anything. Eff. That. Noise. Work is not a moral imperative.
  - solipsism 11y ago
    If one of our descendants happens to be born into a society that grants him/her the _entitlement_ to happiness, that person will be very lucky indeed. We haven't been born into such a society, however.
    - Apocryphon 11y ago
      We're on the threshold of one. We should start living and working that way.
      - leshow 11y ago
        no we aren't, happiness is to nebulous to just be 'solved'
  - sly_foxx 11y ago
    'Everyone deserves everything' Does this include bonobo monkeys, sharks, dogs, snails etc. ? 'We live in a society...' No. You(member of homo sapiens species) live on planet Earth with many biological organisms, like bacteria that's on your hands right now. Actually, even that is too specific. You live in 1 galaxy that has 100s of Billions of stars and other clusters of matter in it. That galaxy is just one out of 100s of Billions of galaxies in the whole universe. 'make sure poor people don't get to have anything' What? Why would some homo sapiens automatically deserve something, just because they happen to be born as one? 'Work is not a moral imperative' Do you have a method of determining what a moral imperative is? You know, people at CERN have built complex machines to detect certain particles. So, you're saying that work is not a moral imperative. How did you find that out? There are people who think that it is. How are you going to convince them they are wrong? Who is dictating these moral imperatives? Is it God?
  - krapp 11y ago
    >We live in a society that is capable of creating a post-scarcity economy (and in many cases, such as media and software, has) Media and software are not examples of post-scarcity economy. They require hardware, which requires infrastructure, which runs on the expenditure of fuel and calories, and is built oftentimes with slave labor. The music needs to be composed, the movies need to be filmed, the games need to be designed. Storage media needs to be replaced. Programmers need to be educated generation after generation, and then everything rewritten in new languages when no one cares about the old ones. Factories need to keep building new models and old models keep filling landfills. The digital world is very much tied to scarcity of resources. Every bit flipped contributes to the inevitable heat death of the universe.
jkereako 11y ago
Happiness is not a right. This kind of thinking will perpetuate your misery.
- Apocryphon 11y ago
  It's enshrined in the American Constitution.
  - krapp 11y ago
    The Declaration of Independence declares a natural right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness[0]." Happiness itself is not enshrined as a right, certainly not by the Constitution[1]. [0] http://www.founding.com/the_declaration_of_i/pageID.2423/default.asp http://www.founding.com/the_declaration_of_i/pageID.2423/def... [1] https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CDOC-110hdoc50/pdf/CDOC-110hdoc50.pdf https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CDOC-110hdoc50/pdf/CDOC-110hdo...
  - leshow 11y ago
    PURSUIT of happiness. try going to the police and saying your right to happiness has been thwarted by the company paying your salary... see how far that gets you

jmspring 11y ago

Depending where, that "cabin in the woods" doesn't come cheap. And the time and effort needed to make a decent fraction of what one does "coding" in jobs around cheap locations is going to take many years of hard work.

gravypod 11y ago
Not if you buy the land at a tax sale, built it yourself, and live with bare essentials. Lets say there are two people who want a home, one person builds theirs and the other buys theirs via a loan. Both are looking for a $200,000 price range. The one who is buying a prebuilt home is going for a 30 year fixed rate mortgage. * Solar Panels - $1,000 * Building Materials - $10,000 * Land - $2,000 * Well Drilled On Property /w Electric Pump, Filter, and Tank - $10,000 * Backup Power Batteries - $1,000 * Composting Toilet, Sink, Kitchen Appliances (All top of the line) - $20,000 (You can save a LOT of money here by skimping on the stove and fridge) * Nice HAM radio set - $1000 * Satellite internet hookup - $500 * Zoning, Permits, Safety inspections - $1,000 Total Approximate Cost: $46,500 This is with very heavy rounding upward. Granted, this home will be small, likely no basement, and two stories. But it will be very comfortable living if you build it yourself. You will be able to maintain everything, no more rent, no more service fees, no more power/water bill. So, just to give buying a home a better fighting chance, let's make this humble home a super humble home. * Aerogel-Composed insilation: 40,000 * Super Efficient NAS/Server: 5,000 * Some more battery capacity: 5,000 * High efficiency HVAC system: 30,000 Added Cost: $80,000 Total Approximate Cost: $126,500 Now lets start going to where money can buy, but you just need a lot of patience. * Why not launch a small satellite in geosynchronous orbit? $100,000 * More HAM equipment for tracking satellites. $5,000 * Underground bunker underneath your home. $60,000 Added Cost: $165,000 Total Approximate Cost: $291,500 Both where able to get into their homes within 2 months, both started out with what was probably going to need some work over time. The home buyer paid $340,427 in total, along with extra taxes. The home builder got a $291,500 and did some really cool shit if you ask me. Yes, I am exaggerating a little. But you get my point. You can always make your dreams come true.

moron4hire 11y ago

I rather much agree with him. What the hell was the point of getting a supposedly in-demand degree, graduating top of my class, maintaining my skills at the top of the industry, if I was just going to get stuck in a corporate hell-hole? Programmers of the world, unite.

solipsism 11y ago
I was going to reply to the parent saying, "He's not saying he's entitled to anything! He just doesn't like his situation and wants to change it!".. and then I realized the author replied first, and indeed is asserting he's entitled to happiness? What was the point of any of that hard work? Maybe there was no point, maybe he/you made a mistake. From where do you derive entitlement? If you live in the United States you're entitled to the _pursuit_ of happiness. Go, pursue it, but your career choices and mistakes are your own. No one owes you anything.
- moron4hire 11y ago
  Alright, fine, we don't deserve anything. We don't deserve to be treated like children. We don't deserve to have the majority of our productivity either stymied or taken from us and bastardized. We don't deserve to be told "do this for us and we'll take care of you" and that turns out to be nothing. Yeah, there's a lot we don't deserve. I'm owed what I was promised. I was promised "pass these tests, you can get into any grad school or company you want." That didn't happen. I was promised, "finish this project, and you'll get a raise and to run the next one your way." That never happened. I was promised a lot of things, and because I don't have a rich daddy to threaten people with a lawsuit for breaking those promises, I get told it's my fault for expecting anything. As I said before. Eff. That. Noise. Your rules suck. I choose my own.
  - jacalata 11y ago
    So what are you going to do then?
  - solipsism 11y ago

NhanH 11y ago

You are not giving the writer enough charity with your interpretation. Almost every single programmers I personally know around his age shares the sentiment. Ranging from SV startup jobs to the FB/Google/Microsoft/AMZN, even some doing programming in countries half way across the world.

jmspring 11y ago
So, a generation of entitled? Me - I stay with a job (or side project or consulting) if it is fun and I am learning something. Pick and choose accordingly. From the article -- "I write test automation to test the front-end" -- there were potentially interesting things here maybe some years ago, but he put himself into a position that frequently gets off shored and doesn't have a lot of room for growth/creativity. Really, all these entitlement 20-something posts are basically the same in general content.
- NhanH 11y ago
  If you believe that there are a world-wide generation of entitled human, there is not much substance to be discussed. I read the post as simple as the field where he grew up with turned out to be a much different thing in a (industrialized?) setting.
- Apocryphon 11y ago
  We live in a time of unprecedented prosperity and productivity. Why shouldn't we be entitled?
- tomreece 11y ago
  I didn't know if I'd like testing or not. But I thought I would try something new. Comparing my daily work with the coders around me, I still think I'd pick testing because they literally just glue too many shitty api's together into an AngularJS application.

YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago

Yeah, I know. He wants to be productive at work. What folly, eh?