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He lost me with his first false equivalency. To keep with his basketball analogy, imagine a basketball league with a separate farm system. There is an unspoken

He lost me with his first false equivalency. To keep with his basketball analogy, imagine a basketball league with a separate farm system. There is an unspoken agreement that the farm system will train basketball players and when the major league needs them the farm system will get a percentage of the players salary. Now the major league teams are using players that didn't go through the farm system, and are only playing garbage time (80% of H-1Bs are paid on the lower 2 tiers of the DOL pay scale). So young people and families see that the farm system isn't really all that viable and so they either don't participate or chose a different sport all together. Ultimately the farm system dries up... I also skimmed your views, and I'd like to address the straw man in your moral section. People that are against H-1B aren't trying to keep out other people. I'd prefer that if we do indeed have a shortage which requires special immigration visas that we have actual hard evidence of the shortage first and if the data shows it then to focus on encouraging employers and education institutions to train citizens first. If that can't be done, I'd rather we automatically give citizenship to those that we deem are vital to our economy instead of keeping them in immigration limbo that is the H-1B system.

davidw 11y ago
> People that are against H-1B aren't trying to keep out other people. You wouldn't know that from reading comments in places like HN. Your point about citizenship (it could be a green card or a different visa, too) is a good one: by giving people with a work visa the freedom to move around, they're no longer beholden to one employer, and their wages will rise to the market rate.
NhanH 11y ago
> I also skimmed your views, and I'd like to address the straw man in your moral section. People that are against H-1B aren't trying to keep out other people. I'd prefer that if we do indeed have a shortage which requires special immigration visas that we have actual hard evidence of the shortage first and if the data shows it then to focus on encouraging employers and education institutions to train citizens first. If that can't be done, I'd rather we automatically give citizenship to those that we deem are vital to our economy instead of keeping them in immigration limbo that is the H-1B system. Yes, but the majority of people against H-1B are not proposing or pushing a feasible alternative. Let me just state a short argument here: currently ,there is no simple way for a programmer being offered a $300k salary to immigrate to the US within a reasonable timeframe (let's say <6 months). EB-x will take years depending on your country of origin (and still takes 1-2years even without waiting, just for the processing time alone). Said programmer will not qualify for O-1 (O-1 requires specific types of achievement/ popularity). L-1 requires you to stay with the company abroad for at least a year.
- ones_and_zeros 11y ago
  At 300k the O-1 visa should be doable. Peter Roberts, an immigration attorney for SV startups that did an AMA here a few weeks ago seems to be able to do them. Here is a blog of someone who went through the process as essentially a glorified programmer[0] Either way I'd rather not keep a broken system just because it works some of the time. 80% of H-1B use the lower 2 pay tiers, so your 300k programmer is an outlier when it comes to H-1B. [0] http://www.dirkdekok.com/2013/08/my-o1-visa-story-and-how-it-almost-killed-my-startup-mobtest/ http://www.dirkdekok.com/2013/08/my-o1-visa-story-and-how-it...

davidw 11y ago

> People that are against H-1B aren't trying to keep out other people. You wouldn't know that from reading comments in places like HN. Your point about citizenship (it could be a green card or a different visa, too) is a good one: by giving people with a work visa the freedom to move around, they're no longer beholden to one employer, and their wages will rise to the market rate.

NhanH 11y ago

> I also skimmed your views, and I'd like to address the straw man in your moral section. People that are against H-1B aren't trying to keep out other people. I'd prefer that if we do indeed have a shortage which requires special immigration visas that we have actual hard evidence of the shortage first and if the data shows it then to focus on encouraging employers and education institutions to train citizens first. If that can't be done, I'd rather we automatically give citizenship to those that we deem are vital to our economy instead of keeping them in immigration limbo that is the H-1B system. Yes, but the majority of people against H-1B are not proposing or pushing a feasible alternative. Let me just state a short argument here: currently ,there is no simple way for a programmer being offered a $300k salary to immigrate to the US within a reasonable timeframe (let's say <6 months). EB-x will take years depending on your country of origin (and still takes 1-2years even without waiting, just for the processing time alone). Said programmer will not qualify for O-1 (O-1 requires specific types of achievement/ popularity). L-1 requires you to stay with the company abroad for at least a year.

ones_and_zeros 11y ago
At 300k the O-1 visa should be doable. Peter Roberts, an immigration attorney for SV startups that did an AMA here a few weeks ago seems to be able to do them. Here is a blog of someone who went through the process as essentially a glorified programmer[0] Either way I'd rather not keep a broken system just because it works some of the time. 80% of H-1B use the lower 2 pay tiers, so your 300k programmer is an outlier when it comes to H-1B. [0] http://www.dirkdekok.com/2013/08/my-o1-visa-story-and-how-it-almost-killed-my-startup-mobtest/ http://www.dirkdekok.com/2013/08/my-o1-visa-story-and-how-it...