6 ms·

Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

56 points by wyndham 11y ago

kwadwon 11y ago
My name is Kwadwo, one of the cofounders of Shypmate. Shypmate is a way for people in Nigeria and Ghana to buy items and goods from the US and get it delivered through a traveler heading to one of those countries. We pay the travelers, the shoppers get their item at an affordable shipping price, and everyone is mostly happy. Perry Ogwuche, another cofounder, immigrated from Nigeria to the US for school and as a student had a pretty hard time finding an affordable way to send things back home. He often would wait until a friend was traveling back before sending things. So we started Shypmate to facilitate that behavior and process. We'd love your thoughts on feedback on the idea and process. People can make orders through the website, WhatsApp number, or email. We only deliver items that have been purchased through Shypmate and never let travelers carry items that Shypmate does not buy directly. On the other end, shoppers can meet travelers at the airport or pay an extra fee for local delivery. Our goal is to make international shopping and shipping affordable and fast in countries where UPS, Fedex, and DHL charge too much.
- amazon_not 11y ago
  How do you deal with import duties and taxes? Who gets burnt if the buyer fails to collect and pay duties and taxes? How will you deal with courier blaming you for any contraband they knowingly or unknowingly import? E.g. knowingly, but inserted in the package provided by you or unknowingly if the vendor provides the contraband in the package?
  - kwadwon 11y ago
    If the item being delivered is over a certain value we'd have the shoppers (in Ghana or Nigeria) cover duties and taxes. We do hope to iterate and make the process more seamless but right now we package and seal the items in Shypmate packaging when we send it to the traveler. It is a very valid issue with preventing any contraband and making sure the traveler is safe. The couriers are also vetted before we allow them to carry packages for us. There is a certain amount of trust on both ends that is required for this to be a seamless process.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > If the item being delivered is over a certain value we'd have the shoppers (in Ghana or Nigeria) cover duties and taxes. Isn't it usual for countries to charge import duties on any goods (regardless of value) brought for trade (including for delivery to a purchaser) rather than for personal use, but allowing some exemptions for personal use? Is the "over a certain value" here an indication that the business model has couriers misrepresent items being delivered as personal-use items if they are within the allowed personal use quotas, even if though they are trade items?
      - amazon_not 11y ago
        Are you providing your couriers with any documentation stating that they are acting as your transport agents in shipping parcels into the country in an attempt to shield them from any liability? Do you provide all the necessary documentation for importing and clearing customs and/or do you train your couriers on how to perform these duties? Do you provide couriers with legal representation in-country and will you cover all costs for their defense?
        tcokoro 11y ago
        We currently do not but these are things that we are looking into as we get feedback from current deliveries and quickly iterate. We are open and transparent and let the travelers know what things Shypmate covers and what we don't.
        amazon_not 11y ago
        Please stop before somebody gets hurt.
        sdoering 11y ago
        Why save people from themselves, if the do this naively? If anyone does use this service (as a courier) and if they do so without asking these obvious questions and then get burned - why protect them? People are (imho) obliged to think for themselves. If they fail to do so why have sympathy?
  - sithadmin 11y ago
    Aside from what you're asking, I'm also wondering how a traveler/courier would avoid a shakedown/arrest by local authorities for participating in what appears to be a pretty overt scheme to bypass normal importing processes and restrictions.
    - kwadwon 11y ago
      The process of buying items in the US and carrying it back home to Ghana or Nigeria is one that is already pretty common. It is true that occasionally people are detained however. Any lost goods would most likely need to be replaced or money will be refunded to shoppers until we can work out a fair and sensible agreement with local authorities. This will be a pretty big issue for us to address.
      - amazon_not 11y ago
        Detained. Do your couriers really know what they are getting themselves into? There is a non-zero chance of them seeing the inside of an African prison cell. "Do not accept parcels from strangers, make sure you pack your own bags and not to leave luggage unattended."
        sithadmin 11y ago
        >Detained. Do your couriers really know what they are getting themselves into? I do, but that's mostly because I travel a fair amount, and have some indirect professional exposure to international trade compliance/regulations. That's also precisely why I would probably never participate in a scheme like this, especially when travelling to countries with flaky civil or human rights records (in this case, Nigeria in particular).
        amazon_not 11y ago
        While not trying to give offense, this service can easily be seen as taking advantage of the desperate, uninformed and/or gullible. For your sake I hope you are very explicitly informing your couriers about the risks associated with carrying parcels for you and that you are seeking and getting informed consent. Any other case and you are a lawsuit waiting to happen.
minimaxir 11y ago
Normally I wouldn't note a startup's name for being similar to others. But Shypmate, in the same industry as Shyp and Postmates (personal couriers), might receive some objection.
sithadmin 11y ago
From the FAQ: >When you reach your travel destination, the shopper will come pick up the product from the Airport and we will pay you (the traveler) as soon as the shopper receives and confirms that they have the product. This seems like it introduces a lot of risk for the traveler. What happens if the shopper receives an item, but doesn't confirm it with Shypmate? Further, as somebody that travels internationally fairly often, I'm not sure I'd be willing to do this. How are import/customs duties and declaration of goods handled? I can't find any information on the site. Further, given that this more or less looks like a scheme to skirt normal channels for importation of goods, what's going to stop the local customs authorities in Ghana or Nigeria from detaining travelers for participating in (what appears to be, though may not actually be) an illegal imports business?
- kwadwon 11y ago
  We do ask the shopper to confirm receipt of the item but we also do follow up with the traveler. In future we may have the traveler take a photo documenting delivery of the item so that a shopper who has received an item doesn't deny that that they have in fact received it. That is a very valid question and one we are currently working on coming up with a good solution for. The fee for duties is something we'd include in the shopper's fee but there are many cases that we'd expect to have to take on that cost initially as we iterate and refine the process. There are many questions still to be answered but we are looking to work with local authorities in Ghana and Nigeria as well.
  - amazon_not 11y ago
    In addition to many other issues, I would never agree to pay import duties and taxes out of pocket as a courier. Either you give me the cash to pay for it or I'd tell customs to keep the parcel and let the buyer sort it out. Now, even assuming I'd be as silly as to pay duties and taxes out of pocket, I sure as hell wouldn't hand over a parcel before being paid in full for my services and any and all taxes and duties.
    - tcokoro 11y ago
seanccox 11y ago
You may consider trying this with Turkey, as well. Informally, friends and family do this kind of thing pretty regularly, and it was also common practice among colleagues at my company's Istanbul office. Though it obviously doesn't offer the protections of a more formal arrangement, there is a Facebook group now to support connecting people – https://www.facebook.com/groups/417504741672236/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/417504741672236/
- amazon_not 11y ago
  Is Turkey any more lenient on smugglers than Ghana or Nigeria?
  - seanccox 11y ago
    I really don't know, but I understood that this business wasn't about smuggling, just transporting expensive or difficult-to-get items. Smuggling implies contraband, which by its nature is probably something tourists and travelers won't dabble with, so if the business model is built around smuggling, then I imagine it is dangerous anywhere.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      > Smuggling implies contraband Smuggling to me implies stuff that people haven't paid tax on. Not just stuff that's illegal to own. Here's a radio programme using court records from the 18th Century to explore history. This episode is about smuggling. > Smuggling was a trade in the 18th century - sprawling from the brutal criminal underworld, to shops, to chic drawing rooms - brandy, tobacco, pepper, lace, French silks. But one commodity above all was worth killing for and facing the noose - tea. > In fact two thirds of the tea which was drunk in Britain was smuggled in along the Southern coastline of Britain. Every single inhabitant of coastal ports like Rye would have known what was going on, probably most were drawn into it - and many ended up in the Old Bailey in London. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04d4sbs http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04d4sbs
      - 11y ago
amazon_not 11y ago
How do you handle credit card / PayPal fraud? When I think about it, this is about the best cash out service I can think of. Carders and phishers are going to love you. The goods are going to be out of the country long before anybody notices any fraudulent charges on their accounts. Guess who is going to be left holding the bag? EDIT: I hope your OPSEC is top notch. Your platform is going to be such a jummy target to all miscreants. Imagine what fun they could have if they had unrestricted access to your backend.
NnamdiJr 11y ago
This is really a great idea. The number of issues surrounding the idea (customs, legal issues, etc.) are obvious, and the discussions around them reminds me of the questions thrown at many of the other major sharing economy start-ups initially (Uber, AirBnB, et al.), but with a good team and some experimentation they will figure them out, as other major startups have done and continue to do. People who have spent a good chunk of time in countries outside the US, already know people have been informally doing this en masse for a _long_ time. I have family in in West Africa who would be using this years ago if available, and I have lived in Asia, and other countries where every time I travel there are friends and friends of friends who ask me to buy and carry goods on their behalf, in both directions. To me it seems Shypmate is just creating a formal system for these actions to take place, and if successful, will make it more efficient, useful, and available to more people while extracting some value for themselves (as any startup seeking profitability should). Good luck to the team. I think there is a lot of potential here.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > The number of issues surrounding the idea (customs, legal issues, etc.) are obvious, and the discussions around them reminds me of the questions thrown at many of the other major sharing economy start-ups initially (Uber, AirBnB, et al.), but with a good team and some experimentation they will figure them out. The rules Uber and AirBNB were flouting aren't generally criminal. Smuggling, OTOH... > People who have spent a good chunk of time in countries outside the US, already know people have been informally doing this en masse for a _long_ time. People do this into the US informally, too. And its true that many governments don't seem to worry too much about informal importation of items for acquaintances that are within the existing allowances for personal use, but which are actually imported for acquaintances (and, IIRC, many actually have specific allowances for this if the importer is a local citizen, rather than a foreign traveler), technically for trade in that the receiver often ends up reimbursing the importer with perhaps a small premium. OTOH, its really unlikely that any government is going to turn a blind eye to a massive, commercial, advertised end-run around its customs duties, or treat anyone they catch involved in such an operation gently. > To me it seems Shypmate is just creating a formal system for these actions to take place Formalizing informal exchanges often has substantial adverse legal consequences. Observing that gold-digging exists and is visibly practiced doesn't making opening an overt brothel a good idea.
biot 11y ago
Why not purchase these items via your company, batch them up into pallet-sized shipments, then arrange for commercial air transportation? You can then provide commercial invoices, cover any duty and taxes, have insurance to cover the goods from loss or damage during transport, and (bonus!) comply with the importation laws of the destination country. I bet that would work out to be less than $25/item and you wouldn't have to count on mules to do your legwork for you. It might even work out well as a UPS/Fedex competitor, saving shipping costs by batching shipments together and allowing you to expand into other countries. Though I'd be very surprised if this isn't already a solved shipping/logistics problem. It's not like transporting items between countries hasn't been around for centuries already; although existing solutions don't have the novelty your company brings to the table: offloading legal compliance onto your mules.
sundvor 11y ago
It all sounds good until someone finds a way to sneak some drugs into one of the packages ... tends to work out poorly for the smugglers in a lot of countries.
teraflop 11y ago
Interestingly, this is not even the first smuggling business that Y Combinator has funded: http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/13/backpack-connects-you-with-travelers-so-you-can-purchase-items-in-other-countries/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/13/backpack-connects-you-with-...
nappy 11y ago
What has led to this opportunity in the first place? Restated: what's broken about shipping goods to Ghana and Nigeria currently that leads to high prices from the status quo shipping companies? What is the single biggest factor leading to high shipping costs?

56 points by wyndham 11y ago

My name is Kwadwo, one of the cofounders of Shypmate. Shypmate is a way for people in Nigeria and Ghana to buy items and goods from the US and get it delivered through a traveler heading to one of those countries. We pay the travelers, the shoppers get their item at an affordable shipping price, and everyone is mostly happy. Perry Ogwuche, another cofounder, immigrated from Nigeria to the US for school and as a student had a pretty hard time finding an affordable way to send things back home. He often would wait until a friend was traveling back before sending things. So we started Shypmate to facilitate that behavior and process. We'd love your thoughts on feedback on the idea and process. People can make orders through the website, WhatsApp number, or email. We only deliver items that have been purchased through Shypmate and never let travelers carry items that Shypmate does not buy directly. On the other end, shoppers can meet travelers at the airport or pay an extra fee for local delivery. Our goal is to make international shopping and shipping affordable and fast in countries where UPS, Fedex, and DHL charge too much.

amazon_not 11y ago
How do you deal with import duties and taxes? Who gets burnt if the buyer fails to collect and pay duties and taxes? How will you deal with courier blaming you for any contraband they knowingly or unknowingly import? E.g. knowingly, but inserted in the package provided by you or unknowingly if the vendor provides the contraband in the package?
- kwadwon 11y ago
  If the item being delivered is over a certain value we'd have the shoppers (in Ghana or Nigeria) cover duties and taxes. We do hope to iterate and make the process more seamless but right now we package and seal the items in Shypmate packaging when we send it to the traveler. It is a very valid issue with preventing any contraband and making sure the traveler is safe. The couriers are also vetted before we allow them to carry packages for us. There is a certain amount of trust on both ends that is required for this to be a seamless process.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > If the item being delivered is over a certain value we'd have the shoppers (in Ghana or Nigeria) cover duties and taxes. Isn't it usual for countries to charge import duties on any goods (regardless of value) brought for trade (including for delivery to a purchaser) rather than for personal use, but allowing some exemptions for personal use? Is the "over a certain value" here an indication that the business model has couriers misrepresent items being delivered as personal-use items if they are within the allowed personal use quotas, even if though they are trade items?
    - amazon_not 11y ago
      Are you providing your couriers with any documentation stating that they are acting as your transport agents in shipping parcels into the country in an attempt to shield them from any liability? Do you provide all the necessary documentation for importing and clearing customs and/or do you train your couriers on how to perform these duties? Do you provide couriers with legal representation in-country and will you cover all costs for their defense?
      - tcokoro 11y ago
        We currently do not but these are things that we are looking into as we get feedback from current deliveries and quickly iterate. We are open and transparent and let the travelers know what things Shypmate covers and what we don't.
        amazon_not 11y ago
        Please stop before somebody gets hurt.
        sdoering 11y ago
        Why save people from themselves, if the do this naively? If anyone does use this service (as a courier) and if they do so without asking these obvious questions and then get burned - why protect them? People are (imho) obliged to think for themselves. If they fail to do so why have sympathy?
- sithadmin 11y ago
  Aside from what you're asking, I'm also wondering how a traveler/courier would avoid a shakedown/arrest by local authorities for participating in what appears to be a pretty overt scheme to bypass normal importing processes and restrictions.
  - kwadwon 11y ago
    The process of buying items in the US and carrying it back home to Ghana or Nigeria is one that is already pretty common. It is true that occasionally people are detained however. Any lost goods would most likely need to be replaced or money will be refunded to shoppers until we can work out a fair and sensible agreement with local authorities. This will be a pretty big issue for us to address.
    - amazon_not 11y ago
      Detained. Do your couriers really know what they are getting themselves into? There is a non-zero chance of them seeing the inside of an African prison cell. "Do not accept parcels from strangers, make sure you pack your own bags and not to leave luggage unattended."
      - sithadmin 11y ago
        >Detained. Do your couriers really know what they are getting themselves into? I do, but that's mostly because I travel a fair amount, and have some indirect professional exposure to international trade compliance/regulations. That's also precisely why I would probably never participate in a scheme like this, especially when travelling to countries with flaky civil or human rights records (in this case, Nigeria in particular).
        amazon_not 11y ago
        While not trying to give offense, this service can easily be seen as taking advantage of the desperate, uninformed and/or gullible. For your sake I hope you are very explicitly informing your couriers about the risks associated with carrying parcels for you and that you are seeking and getting informed consent. Any other case and you are a lawsuit waiting to happen.

minimaxir 11y ago

Normally I wouldn't note a startup's name for being similar to others. But Shypmate, in the same industry as Shyp and Postmates (personal couriers), might receive some objection.

sithadmin 11y ago

From the FAQ: >When you reach your travel destination, the shopper will come pick up the product from the Airport and we will pay you (the traveler) as soon as the shopper receives and confirms that they have the product. This seems like it introduces a lot of risk for the traveler. What happens if the shopper receives an item, but doesn't confirm it with Shypmate? Further, as somebody that travels internationally fairly often, I'm not sure I'd be willing to do this. How are import/customs duties and declaration of goods handled? I can't find any information on the site. Further, given that this more or less looks like a scheme to skirt normal channels for importation of goods, what's going to stop the local customs authorities in Ghana or Nigeria from detaining travelers for participating in (what appears to be, though may not actually be) an illegal imports business?

kwadwon 11y ago
We do ask the shopper to confirm receipt of the item but we also do follow up with the traveler. In future we may have the traveler take a photo documenting delivery of the item so that a shopper who has received an item doesn't deny that that they have in fact received it. That is a very valid question and one we are currently working on coming up with a good solution for. The fee for duties is something we'd include in the shopper's fee but there are many cases that we'd expect to have to take on that cost initially as we iterate and refine the process. There are many questions still to be answered but we are looking to work with local authorities in Ghana and Nigeria as well.
- amazon_not 11y ago
  In addition to many other issues, I would never agree to pay import duties and taxes out of pocket as a courier. Either you give me the cash to pay for it or I'd tell customs to keep the parcel and let the buyer sort it out. Now, even assuming I'd be as silly as to pay duties and taxes out of pocket, I sure as hell wouldn't hand over a parcel before being paid in full for my services and any and all taxes and duties.
  - tcokoro 11y ago

seanccox 11y ago

You may consider trying this with Turkey, as well. Informally, friends and family do this kind of thing pretty regularly, and it was also common practice among colleagues at my company's Istanbul office. Though it obviously doesn't offer the protections of a more formal arrangement, there is a Facebook group now to support connecting people – https://www.facebook.com/groups/417504741672236/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/417504741672236/

amazon_not 11y ago
Is Turkey any more lenient on smugglers than Ghana or Nigeria?
- seanccox 11y ago
  I really don't know, but I understood that this business wasn't about smuggling, just transporting expensive or difficult-to-get items. Smuggling implies contraband, which by its nature is probably something tourists and travelers won't dabble with, so if the business model is built around smuggling, then I imagine it is dangerous anywhere.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > Smuggling implies contraband Smuggling to me implies stuff that people haven't paid tax on. Not just stuff that's illegal to own. Here's a radio programme using court records from the 18th Century to explore history. This episode is about smuggling. > Smuggling was a trade in the 18th century - sprawling from the brutal criminal underworld, to shops, to chic drawing rooms - brandy, tobacco, pepper, lace, French silks. But one commodity above all was worth killing for and facing the noose - tea. > In fact two thirds of the tea which was drunk in Britain was smuggled in along the Southern coastline of Britain. Every single inhabitant of coastal ports like Rye would have known what was going on, probably most were drawn into it - and many ended up in the Old Bailey in London. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04d4sbs http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04d4sbs
    - 11y ago

amazon_not 11y ago

How do you handle credit card / PayPal fraud? When I think about it, this is about the best cash out service I can think of. Carders and phishers are going to love you. The goods are going to be out of the country long before anybody notices any fraudulent charges on their accounts. Guess who is going to be left holding the bag? EDIT: I hope your OPSEC is top notch. Your platform is going to be such a jummy target to all miscreants. Imagine what fun they could have if they had unrestricted access to your backend.

NnamdiJr 11y ago

This is really a great idea. The number of issues surrounding the idea (customs, legal issues, etc.) are obvious, and the discussions around them reminds me of the questions thrown at many of the other major sharing economy start-ups initially (Uber, AirBnB, et al.), but with a good team and some experimentation they will figure them out, as other major startups have done and continue to do. People who have spent a good chunk of time in countries outside the US, already know people have been informally doing this en masse for a _long_ time. I have family in in West Africa who would be using this years ago if available, and I have lived in Asia, and other countries where every time I travel there are friends and friends of friends who ask me to buy and carry goods on their behalf, in both directions. To me it seems Shypmate is just creating a formal system for these actions to take place, and if successful, will make it more efficient, useful, and available to more people while extracting some value for themselves (as any startup seeking profitability should). Good luck to the team. I think there is a lot of potential here.

dragonwriter 11y ago
> The number of issues surrounding the idea (customs, legal issues, etc.) are obvious, and the discussions around them reminds me of the questions thrown at many of the other major sharing economy start-ups initially (Uber, AirBnB, et al.), but with a good team and some experimentation they will figure them out. The rules Uber and AirBNB were flouting aren't generally criminal. Smuggling, OTOH... > People who have spent a good chunk of time in countries outside the US, already know people have been informally doing this en masse for a _long_ time. People do this into the US informally, too. And its true that many governments don't seem to worry too much about informal importation of items for acquaintances that are within the existing allowances for personal use, but which are actually imported for acquaintances (and, IIRC, many actually have specific allowances for this if the importer is a local citizen, rather than a foreign traveler), technically for trade in that the receiver often ends up reimbursing the importer with perhaps a small premium. OTOH, its really unlikely that any government is going to turn a blind eye to a massive, commercial, advertised end-run around its customs duties, or treat anyone they catch involved in such an operation gently. > To me it seems Shypmate is just creating a formal system for these actions to take place Formalizing informal exchanges often has substantial adverse legal consequences. Observing that gold-digging exists and is visibly practiced doesn't making opening an overt brothel a good idea.

biot 11y ago

Why not purchase these items via your company, batch them up into pallet-sized shipments, then arrange for commercial air transportation? You can then provide commercial invoices, cover any duty and taxes, have insurance to cover the goods from loss or damage during transport, and (bonus!) comply with the importation laws of the destination country. I bet that would work out to be less than $25/item and you wouldn't have to count on mules to do your legwork for you. It might even work out well as a UPS/Fedex competitor, saving shipping costs by batching shipments together and allowing you to expand into other countries. Though I'd be very surprised if this isn't already a solved shipping/logistics problem. It's not like transporting items between countries hasn't been around for centuries already; although existing solutions don't have the novelty your company brings to the table: offloading legal compliance onto your mules.

sundvor 11y ago

It all sounds good until someone finds a way to sneak some drugs into one of the packages ... tends to work out poorly for the smugglers in a lot of countries.

teraflop 11y ago

Interestingly, this is not even the first smuggling business that Y Combinator has funded: http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/13/backpack-connects-you-with-travelers-so-you-can-purchase-items-in-other-countries/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/13/backpack-connects-you-with-...

nappy 11y ago

What has led to this opportunity in the first place? Restated: what's broken about shipping goods to Ghana and Nigeria currently that leads to high prices from the status quo shipping companies? What is the single biggest factor leading to high shipping costs?