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"Engineers are particularly spoiled. They can take an arbitrary sabbatical from work..." <---> (on the about page) "...Currently a principal engineer at AppNexu

"Engineers are particularly spoiled. They can take an arbitrary sabbatical from work..." <---> (on the about page) "...Currently a principal engineer at AppNexus on sabbatical..." ???

theseatoms 11y ago
Takes one to know one. ;)
thelarry 11y ago
I'm very hypocritical.
- YuriNiyazov 11y ago
  Yea no kidding. "AppNexus helps brands connect with consumers, empowering agencies and advertisers with a uniquely powerful approach to programmatic online advertising." Thanks for working on Ad Tech, the very thing that powers this bubble by trading attention as a commodity. Other people work on silly startups, but this shit is akin to HFT.
  - jbooth 11y ago
    Unless microtransactions for content take off, and they haven't, ad tech is necessary to incentivize content on the web. 90% of the websites you read could not exist without the ecosystem that appnexus is a big player in. Hacker News, being one big ad for ycombinator, doesn't need to bother. So he's doing a real thing that provides real value to the web. And it's actually a sustainable business, to boot. Lastly, there's absolutely no need to get so personal -- if his article offended you, discuss the article.
    - YuriNiyazov 11y ago
      See, whether a startup is silly or not is an opinion. I happen to have an opinion that adtech is evil. Whether it has a side benefit like allowing "content" to exist is tangential. I usually keep that opinion to myself because it's not a popular one, but in this particular subthread we are not discussing the article, we are discussing the author who volunteered his "I am very hypocritical" comment. Elsewhere in this comment thread I discuss the article.
      - bduerst 11y ago
        I don't get it - are you arguing that because you think your opinion is unpopular it's okay to be facetious?
        YuriNiyazov 11y ago
        No, I am stating the following (maybe unclearly): 1) In a thread where the author shows up and says "I am very hypocritical", standard rules like "discuss the article, not the author" do not apply. The author is fair game for discussion. 2) I don't usually crap on other peoples' industries, but not in this case, because (1).
    - throwupper247 11y ago
      I could do without 90% of those websites, i suppose
    - ktRolster 11y ago
      "90% of the websites you read could not exist without the ecosystem that appnexus is a big player in." That's ok. The internet would be better off without most junk websites, and the ones I like, I'm willing to pay for.
      - jbooth 11y ago
        Funnily enough, a big side effect of the ad tech's evolution over the last 10 years is that junk websites tend to get junk ads with junk CPM and quality websites get the higher-value stuff.
    - taurath 11y ago
      You don't need to incentivize content on the web. People's interests and need for collaberation and sharing should incentivize content on the web. We're in enough of a media bubble already - there's so much media and so few trusted sources that its impossible to filter content anymore. Ads inject themselves after people's ability to filter burn out like a virus. Its not good for society.
    - bpchaps 11y ago
      We like to call out politicians and such for who sponsors them. What's wrong with calling out our information sources in the same way? (serious question)
    - Kinnard 11y ago
      You know, this might be the year when microtransactions for content actually take off.
    - FussyZeus 11y ago
      We would be ok without 90% of websites. Too much redundancy and junk content.
  - wheaties 11y ago
    Advertising is a necessary part of selling a product. Selling a product is a necessary part of being profitable. Why hate on that? Way better than waste-my-time Farmville or an enhanced "like" button. Adtech actually helps commerce.
    - macavity23 11y ago
      Many products succeed with zero advertising.
      - ojr 11y ago
        Facebook stock value is doing well and it is because many products are using it to advertise
      - shostack 11y ago
        And they are by far the exception and not the rule. Too many fall into the "Field of Dreams" fallacy thinking that if you build it, they will come. Most of the time it doesn't work like that.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - Animats 11y ago
    Interestingly, this bubble is not powered by ads. Only one of the top 25 "unicorns" worldwide, Snapchat, is ad-based. The others provide a good or service paid for directly by their customers. [1] http://fortune.com/unicorns/ http://fortune.com/unicorns/
  - bcg1 11y ago
    To be fair... he's not working... he's on sabbatical :)
wmeredith 11y ago
Ah, there's my morning coffee spit take. I've been online for a few hours already; it was late today.
avitzurel 11y ago
Ignoring the hypocritical nature of this statement, I take offense in this generalization in particular. If you're an engineer with a family here in SV, you cannot take a sabbatical. In most cases you need to get a job in a week or the rent will drive you to bankruptcy.
- mattmanser 11y ago
  Oh come on with the hyperbole, if you didn't spend so much money on a nice area and expensive stuff you could afford it easily. I don't get people who are so smart and yet simultaneously so stupid that they think spending $100,000 a year is normal. Wake up, you're rich, you're just too stupid to realize you could be living at a much cheaper level.
  - gedy 11y ago
    Hey, you know that the vast majority of businesses are not very friendly to remote work, and moving away from these areas frequently means a pay cut or sometimes inability to find work? I'm not defending this at all, as I think it's stupid, but they are not "rich". They are frankly just less screwed than other middle class folks.
    - mattmanser 11y ago
      The median household income in the US is $51,939 (2013). You seriously think having double or probably triple from just one salary isn't rich? And where exactly are all your caterers and cleaners and gardeners and nannies and baristas and tavern workers and shop people living and buying their food with their minimum wage in the bay area? Obviously they aren't remote working. Perspective is a bitch.
      - yarou 11y ago
        >You seriously think having double or probably triple from just one salary isn't rich? First of all, cost of living varies widely from locality to locality. Making 90k a year in middle of nowhere Idaho or some other piece of flyover country is totally different than making 150k in an urban area like NYC or SF. Saying: "welp, it's your fault your cost of living is so high, you should move 2 hours away to Sacramento, stupid" is not only incredibly naive, but borders on a level of ignorance that I haven't seen in quite some time.
kzhahou 11y ago
Ad hominem
- flatpointer23 11y ago
  The author complains about that behavior, labeling it a sign of how 'spoiled' engineers are. The author also engages in this behavior. Pointing this out, and labelling it hypocrisy, does not constitute an ad hominem attack. Because what the author has done is the definition of hypocrisy.
  - Domenic_S 11y ago
    It depends on the implication of the allegation of hypocrisy. Is it intended to discredit the author or his argument? Then it's a tu quoque fallacy.
  - bweitzman 11y ago
    Yeah but hypocrisy doesn't take away from the point the author is making. Something can be true and also be ad hominem.
  - kzhahou 11y ago
    It's actually the exact definition of ad hominem tu quoque.
lawpoop 11y ago
Just your regular self-aware engineer. There is nothing hypocritical about acknowledging one's self is spoiled.
- dasil003 11y ago
  The combination of a cultural bloodthirst for hypocrisy, as well as the human intelligent capacity for abstraction and pattern matching guarantees that anyone can, and probably will, end up being labeled a hypocrite.

"Engineers are particularly spoiled. They can take an arbitrary sabbatical from work..." <---> (on the about page) "...Currently a principal engineer at AppNexus on sabbatical..." ???

theseatoms 11y ago

Takes one to know one. ;)

thelarry 11y ago

I'm very hypocritical.

YuriNiyazov 11y ago
Yea no kidding. "AppNexus helps brands connect with consumers, empowering agencies and advertisers with a uniquely powerful approach to programmatic online advertising." Thanks for working on Ad Tech, the very thing that powers this bubble by trading attention as a commodity. Other people work on silly startups, but this shit is akin to HFT.
- jbooth 11y ago
  Unless microtransactions for content take off, and they haven't, ad tech is necessary to incentivize content on the web. 90% of the websites you read could not exist without the ecosystem that appnexus is a big player in. Hacker News, being one big ad for ycombinator, doesn't need to bother. So he's doing a real thing that provides real value to the web. And it's actually a sustainable business, to boot. Lastly, there's absolutely no need to get so personal -- if his article offended you, discuss the article.
  - YuriNiyazov 11y ago
    See, whether a startup is silly or not is an opinion. I happen to have an opinion that adtech is evil. Whether it has a side benefit like allowing "content" to exist is tangential. I usually keep that opinion to myself because it's not a popular one, but in this particular subthread we are not discussing the article, we are discussing the author who volunteered his "I am very hypocritical" comment. Elsewhere in this comment thread I discuss the article.
    - bduerst 11y ago
      I don't get it - are you arguing that because you think your opinion is unpopular it's okay to be facetious?
      - YuriNiyazov 11y ago
        No, I am stating the following (maybe unclearly): 1) In a thread where the author shows up and says "I am very hypocritical", standard rules like "discuss the article, not the author" do not apply. The author is fair game for discussion. 2) I don't usually crap on other peoples' industries, but not in this case, because (1).
  - throwupper247 11y ago
    I could do without 90% of those websites, i suppose
  - ktRolster 11y ago
    "90% of the websites you read could not exist without the ecosystem that appnexus is a big player in." That's ok. The internet would be better off without most junk websites, and the ones I like, I'm willing to pay for.
    - jbooth 11y ago
      Funnily enough, a big side effect of the ad tech's evolution over the last 10 years is that junk websites tend to get junk ads with junk CPM and quality websites get the higher-value stuff.
  - taurath 11y ago
    You don't need to incentivize content on the web. People's interests and need for collaberation and sharing should incentivize content on the web. We're in enough of a media bubble already - there's so much media and so few trusted sources that its impossible to filter content anymore. Ads inject themselves after people's ability to filter burn out like a virus. Its not good for society.
  - bpchaps 11y ago
    We like to call out politicians and such for who sponsors them. What's wrong with calling out our information sources in the same way? (serious question)
  - Kinnard 11y ago
    You know, this might be the year when microtransactions for content actually take off.
  - FussyZeus 11y ago
    We would be ok without 90% of websites. Too much redundancy and junk content.
- wheaties 11y ago
  Advertising is a necessary part of selling a product. Selling a product is a necessary part of being profitable. Why hate on that? Way better than waste-my-time Farmville or an enhanced "like" button. Adtech actually helps commerce.
  - macavity23 11y ago
    Many products succeed with zero advertising.
    - ojr 11y ago
      Facebook stock value is doing well and it is because many products are using it to advertise
    - shostack 11y ago
      And they are by far the exception and not the rule. Too many fall into the "Field of Dreams" fallacy thinking that if you build it, they will come. Most of the time it doesn't work like that.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Animats 11y ago
  Interestingly, this bubble is not powered by ads. Only one of the top 25 "unicorns" worldwide, Snapchat, is ad-based. The others provide a good or service paid for directly by their customers. [1] http://fortune.com/unicorns/ http://fortune.com/unicorns/
- bcg1 11y ago
  To be fair... he's not working... he's on sabbatical :)

wmeredith 11y ago

Ah, there's my morning coffee spit take. I've been online for a few hours already; it was late today.

avitzurel 11y ago

Ignoring the hypocritical nature of this statement, I take offense in this generalization in particular. If you're an engineer with a family here in SV, you cannot take a sabbatical. In most cases you need to get a job in a week or the rent will drive you to bankruptcy.

mattmanser 11y ago
Oh come on with the hyperbole, if you didn't spend so much money on a nice area and expensive stuff you could afford it easily. I don't get people who are so smart and yet simultaneously so stupid that they think spending $100,000 a year is normal. Wake up, you're rich, you're just too stupid to realize you could be living at a much cheaper level.
- gedy 11y ago
  Hey, you know that the vast majority of businesses are not very friendly to remote work, and moving away from these areas frequently means a pay cut or sometimes inability to find work? I'm not defending this at all, as I think it's stupid, but they are not "rich". They are frankly just less screwed than other middle class folks.
  - mattmanser 11y ago
    The median household income in the US is $51,939 (2013). You seriously think having double or probably triple from just one salary isn't rich? And where exactly are all your caterers and cleaners and gardeners and nannies and baristas and tavern workers and shop people living and buying their food with their minimum wage in the bay area? Obviously they aren't remote working. Perspective is a bitch.
    - yarou 11y ago
      >You seriously think having double or probably triple from just one salary isn't rich? First of all, cost of living varies widely from locality to locality. Making 90k a year in middle of nowhere Idaho or some other piece of flyover country is totally different than making 150k in an urban area like NYC or SF. Saying: "welp, it's your fault your cost of living is so high, you should move 2 hours away to Sacramento, stupid" is not only incredibly naive, but borders on a level of ignorance that I haven't seen in quite some time.

kzhahou 11y ago

Ad hominem

flatpointer23 11y ago
The author complains about that behavior, labeling it a sign of how 'spoiled' engineers are. The author also engages in this behavior. Pointing this out, and labelling it hypocrisy, does not constitute an ad hominem attack. Because what the author has done is the definition of hypocrisy.
- Domenic_S 11y ago
  It depends on the implication of the allegation of hypocrisy. Is it intended to discredit the author or his argument? Then it's a tu quoque fallacy.
- bweitzman 11y ago
  Yeah but hypocrisy doesn't take away from the point the author is making. Something can be true and also be ad hominem.
- kzhahou 11y ago
  It's actually the exact definition of ad hominem tu quoque.

lawpoop 11y ago

Just your regular self-aware engineer. There is nothing hypocritical about acknowledging one's self is spoiled.

dasil003 11y ago
The combination of a cultural bloodthirst for hypocrisy, as well as the human intelligent capacity for abstraction and pattern matching guarantees that anyone can, and probably will, end up being labeled a hypocrite.